Heya guys!!  Yes.  You know you love “The Hass”!!  o.O

Now that I’ve made you suffer through that, *sadistic grin* lets get down to something you guys probably will love to have.  APE (Attack Power Equivalency) weights and Pawn scales for Frost and Unholy DPS!!

Please note that these scales do not include the 2 piece or 4 set bonuses.

Also these scales assume that you are looking for “ideal gear” in the 260-270+ ilvl range.  This is basically a “Best in Slot” APE weighting.

Frost

Loot Rank Frost without Melee Hit Cap

Loot Rank Frost with Melee Hit Cap

Enchants, Trinkets, and Weapons

It is important to note that this site (and APE scales in general) will not always properly reflect the best choices for enchants, trinkets, and weapons.  Please do not rely upon these scales for those three categories.  While some results are accurate, others can be wildly off.

Pawn Mod Frost Scale

( Pawn: v1: "Frost": ArmorPenetration=3.08, CritRating=2.12, Dps=7.12, Strength=2.83, HitRating=2.23, Agility=1.67, HasteRating=2.15, ExpertiseRating=2.08, Speed=394.23, Ap=1, GemQualityLevel=81 )

Please note that due to weird HTML hatred, some symbols do not copy properly.  I placed this into a <code> format and that should fix the issue.

You can download Pawn at Curse.  Pawn will auto load some weight scales at the start.  Just turn them off.  I did.

Frost T10 Set Bonuses

T10 2 piece:  400 APE

T10 4 piece:  380 APE

Frost Spec

Cookie Cutter Frost:  1/52/18

• The currently held “best” spec by popular opinion.

SJ’s Frost:  0/53/18

• More dps than the cookie cutter version, but also generates more TPS.

SJ’s Frost Slow Spec (H LK):  0/55/16

• Loses 500-2000 dps in P1 of H LK, but once the first transition begins it only loses about 300 dps tops.

Unholy

Loot Rank Unholy without Melee Hit Cap

Loot Rank Unholy with Melee Hit Cap

Enchants, Trinkets, and Weapons

It is important to note that this site (and APE scales in general) will not always properly reflect the best choices for enchants, trinkets, and weapons.  Please do not rely upon these scales for those three categories.  While some results are accurate, others can be wildly off.

Pawn Mod Unholy Scale

( Pawn: v1: "Unholy": ArmorPenetration=2.58, CritRating=2, Dps=7.04, Strength=3.1, Agility=1.35, ExpertiseRating=1.52, Speed=32.39, HasteRating=2.87, HitRating=0.58, Ap=1, GemQualityLevel=81 )

Please note that due to weird HTML hatred, some symbols do not copy properly.  I placed this into a <code> format and that should fix the issue.

You can download Pawn at Curse.  Pawn will auto load some weight scales at the start.  Just turn them off.  I did.

Unholy T10 Set Bonuses

T10 2 piece:  230 APE

T10 4 piece:  410 APE

Unholy Spec

Cookie Cutter Unholy:  0/17/54

• The currently held “best” spec by popular opinion.

SJ’s Unholy:  0/17/54

• Loses 200 dps tops (maybe less) to gain Death Runes.

SJ’s Unholy Slow Spec (H LK):  0/17/54

• Loses 400 dps and gains 15% movement.

Questions?

Post a comment or e-mail me:

Skeleton.Jack@hotmail.com

-Suffer Well Brothers and Sisters…

Heya guys!!  If you didn’t read both of the posts below, then uhm…you suck!!!  Scroll down damnit!!  For the super lazy, click these links:

• Heroic Lich King for Death Knights
• Heroic Lich King Part II

Due to the reaction from the reader base and the relevancy of this encounter I’ve made Heroic Lich King a multi-post topic.  This means you actually have to read all of the threads to follow the entire conversation.  *smirk*

Frost Slow Spec at H LK

I’m a big fan of the mantra “Don’t knock it till you try it.”  So, I tried a Frost Slow spec last night at H LK.

First Slow Frost Spec Trial: 0/55/16

You get 4 free points to move around as you see fit as Frost.  I dropped 3 into Chilblains and then 1 into Blood-Caked Blade.  In addition to that I also dropped the Glyph of Disease and replaced it with the Glyph of Howling Blast.

If you use Pestilence as part of your rotation with Chilblains then the ghouls will be slowed, which can become a huge problem.

When the tanks taunts the ghouls from LK to Shambling Horrors, slow effects can cause their transit time to be too long resulting in them running back to LK (typically due to warriors or death knights from splash damage).

Due to that I dropped the Glyph of Disease and tried out the Glyph of Howling Blast for Valks instead.  Hated it.

I use Howling Blast for not only Rime procs, but also whenever I have to move and I’m not in melee range.  Whether it’s Shadow Traps, Necrotic Plague, Defile, etc…  You can end up out of melee range a lot of times, and HB is perfect for those situations.  However you can’t use it in P1 due to slowing the ghouls…

So then I tried the same spec, but back to Glyph of Disease again.  Happy Days!!

SJ’s Frost Slow Spec: 0/55/16

It’s the same as above, just with fixed glyphs.  Not only do you no longer suffer the dps loss from not having GoD in the rest of the phases after P1, but it’s pretty much just as viable for applying Chilblains through Pestilence as using HB and the GoHB.

You have to hold two Blood Runes (or Death Runes if up) for when the Valks are about to spawn, but outside of that you don’t have to do a lot of preparation to make this work.  It’s pretty solid.

Issues with Frost Slow Spec

So there are still a few problems that need to be addressed…

Over Writing Chilblains

Chilblains was being over written a lot last night in the raid.  I was able to determine that it was by either a short debuff or a static debuff.  The slow was not lasting long, so either they were moving out of the static debuff or the debuff applied had a short duration.

After doing some online research I found a post that noted hunter Frost Traps were over writing Chilblains.  There might be other abilities that will over write as well, but that is all I’ve found so far.

If you use this spec, make sure you get your hunters to not drop Frost Traps unless you get picked up by Valks, and you have to be able to communicate that fact quickly if it does happen (such as a Vent call).

DPS Losses

Unlike Unholy, Frost loses a larger amount of DPS from using this spec.  During P1 you are looking at a loss of 500-1000 dps on LK at a minimum due to talent changes and not being able to use Pestilence in rotation.

It’s more likely in a range of a 1-2k dps loss.

However the steep dps hit is only for P1.  So if your raid has no issues with P1, then this is not a concern.  From the moment you hit the transition out of P1, you can add Pestilence back into your rotation.

Outside of P1, this spec is approximately a 300 dps loss.

Reliability and Duration

The reliability factor comes down to whether anyone is over writing your debuff.  If you have that under lock, and your debuff is up at all times, then reliability is almost covered.

If you know of any effect that over writes Chilblains besides Frost Trap please leave a comment, or a link to the referenced data.  Do not post “ideas” please.  Just facts.

As to the duration, Chilblains lasts for 10 seconds.  Runes have a 10 second cd.  This means that there is potentially a 1 second window where the debuff can fall off.  Which touches the reliability factor again.

If your raid dps is strong enough and you use everything properly, then you can keep the debuff up.  But it’ll offset your Blood Rune cd’s slightly and always has the risk of no debuff for 1 second.  So it’s a mixed bag.

SJ’s Recommended H LK Specs

It should be noted that I still feel that Unholy is the best spec for H LK for your raid.  While Frost is viable, it is not the best spec possible.  And in this case, the “best case” really makes a huge difference.

Frost

Cookie Cutter Frost:  1/52/18

SJ’s Frost:  0/53/18

SJ’s Frost Slow Spec (H LK):  0/55/16

Unholy

Cookie Cutter Unholy:  0/17/54

SJ’s Unholy:  0/17/54

SJ’s Unholy Slow Spec (H LK):  0/17/54

If you have questions regarding these specs, please refer to the two previous posts (linked at the top of the post) which have more in depth discussion on talent choices, etc…

Questions and Answers

Rikukun wrote:

What is your opinion on using reaping now with the t10 2 set bonus? I know that you have used it in specs in the past, but i noticed it missing now. Switching to 2 blood strikes instead of SS will drive me nuts in rotations now if i dont use reaping, lol.

Also, i tried out specing into frost as you did (but without desecration since im not at even normal lich king quite yet, and i pulled about the same on 25 man festergut as i did with points in blood and reaping the week before, 10.4kdps, but i pulled about 500 dps less on deathbringer saurfang. So are you sure that specing into frost is superior to specing into blood? if so, id say its either with better gear than what i have or its really close.

Reaping is still one of my favorite talents out there.  You could put together an Unholy Slow spec like this:  0/17/54.  It loses out on the 15% movement buff and is about a 300-500 dps loss (at most) over talenting out pure dps talents.

The Frost sub spec for Unholy becomes superior when you are in ICC+ gear.  If you’re still toting gear around with less than an ilvl of 250, then you may want to research older specs more conducive to your gear level.

ODK wrote:

HEHEH you crack me up, my spelling/punctuation/ect will allways be bad — but thank you Very mcuh for goin into detail on my suggestions..

Another question i had tho, will desecration do much good if/when you allready have hunters dropping hunter traps? wondering if desecration still has an effect above and beyond or if the hunters are basically allready doing the job? (other than DK can reapply desecration in its path as it moves out of the icetrap….)

ive noticed every encounter ive done in many guilds, they have a nice lil patch of ice the valks tend to land and start movin across. wanted to check on that before i put the points into desecration to just try to help on my end best i could…figured if the trap covers it enough then the dps would be better to drop them faster?  thx..

or even just chillblains with pestilence? isnt that in itself enough?

damnit, wish i could edit those posts? reason i suggest that is simply to keep your frost spec, wouldnt it compare to desecration enough that you would be able to keep your DW frost spec and get NEARLY similar results?

Frost Traps are sub par to Desecration for the reason you mention.  Unholy will constantly apply the effect under the Valks when hitting them, while the Valks will move out of the Frost Traps.  FT just isn’t enough.

For Chilblains please see above post.  While it is comparable, it just is not on the same level as Desecration in regards to reliability (cannot be over written) or how often it is applied consistently without as much of a dps loss that Frost suffers.

Dammanus wrote:

Well my previous comment was adressed to guilds not having 11/12 on “farm status”, which is MY case.

So in my case, it is a DPS loss for the other bosses, so when we get 11/12 on farm, then ill switch to your H LK spec, but for the meantime i want 100% DPS tyvm.

As I said previously, the specs listed here are intended as specs specific to H LK.  They are not intended to be used through out all of ICC.  You are expected to go drop the gold and respec your character for just this encounter.

So your comment says to me that you did not read the entire post in detail.

Skeleton Jack wrote:

And while this may not have been obvious (as I did not state it), but my recommendation is to swap specs just for H LK.  I’m not recommending using those specs on a day to day basis in all encounters.  I’m talking about using it specifically for H LK.

Summation

Unholy is still the best spec for H LK due to P2 Valks.

Frost is viable, but has some issues that you will have to deal with such as no Pest in P1, debuff over writing issues, and 1 sec windows of no slow debuff.

Please, again, read the previous posts.  This post is one in a series of posts, and all of their content is relevant to each other.  They are linked at the top of the post.

If you have questions, I might have answers!  As always, leave comments on site or e-mail me:

Skeleton.Jack@hotmail.com

-Suffer Well Brothers and Sisters…

Heya guys!!  If you didn’t read the post below, then uhm…why?  Scroll down!!  For the super lazy, click this link:  Heroic Lich King for Death Knights

Due to this information being very relevant to my readers (imo), I’ve decided to make a post out of comment responses to the previous thread.

ODK wrote:

Well what about Chillblains & Howling Blast? isnt that nearly the same crowd control you are looking for? but last longer and isnt locked to a location?

also you can throw in Deathchill for the extra huge AOE damage along with Icy Reach for Vile Spirits – this way you can spread disease, throw down a D&D under them then line yourself up to throw a Deathchill Howling Blast and have them quite slowed (howling blast is to get the ones pestilence possibly doesnt, and great damage) but together you should be doin quite a bit of the Vile Spirit damage on your own, include a few others helpin and job is easier no?

or is there something im still missing in all of that?
this was an idea i just thoguht of when we were doin normal LK attempts and havin trouble iwth vile spirits, hadnt actually done it yet cause we solved that problem before i had to….but if this isnt a good solve please explain…

Betcha wished you had taken the time for spelling and caps and junk now huh? 

Chilblains is great, but it doesn’t do what Desecration does.  If your guild is positioning properly, then Desecration will already be on the ground from hitting the LK.  If you’ve ever noticed, all 3 of the Valks do not drop down at the same time.  Which means applying Chilblains to all 3 of the Valks the moment they land is nearly impossible.

With Desecration on the other hand, they should be landing in it.  Which means out of every slow in the game available, Desecration is the only one that should be active and in place when they land without fail (short of hunter trap popped by LK).  Note, without fail directly refers to a guild failing at positioning.

As to Icy Reach and Deathchill, how many total talent points do you want to start pulling?  As a melee DK the Vile Spirits should not ever be our concern.  If they are, then the raid is seriously doing something wrong to begin with.  A Shadow Priest preferably, or a Paladin if not, should be popping them for your guild.

You could work in Deathchill if you wanted to, but I just don’t see the need.  And as to Howling Blast slowing them, that would require the Glyph of Howling Blast and Chilblains as well.  So at this point you’re talking about investing 6 talent points and a glyph.  While my Frost spec had 4 points “free”, I think you’ve gone into overkill mode.

If your guild is having issues with Vile Spirits you should do some research on having Shadow Priests pop them (paladin can as well), and the kite path/positioning necessary to make that happen.

As always please remember, if your guild does not have issues with keeping Valks stunned/slowed, then Desecration is not going to be as “uber” or needed for the encounter.  That said, I find my guild has been having issues with keeping them properly controlled perfectly 100% of the time.

Damannus wrote:

I dont really see a need to alter a spec so much just for 1 fight, or switch from DW frost back to 2hand unholy. Remember there are 11 bosses before LK, so you want your DPS to be @ 100%, what i would so is keep my DW frost spec and just swap to unholy pressence on LK.

Desecration is a waste, a good DK should be able to apply chains of ice on all valkyrs and still be high on the DPS meters. Try chain of icing the ads on saurfang before they move down the steps, either reg or H, its good practice.

Alter a spec so much for just 1 fight?  Remember there are 11 other bosses before LK?  Seriously?

If you’ve got everything on farm status, then I’m sorry, those other bosses just don’t matter.  By definition, “farm status” means that those encounters are no longer an issue.  Sure you may have an off week and have a few wipes here and there, but generally speaking you’re one shotting everything and going to H LK with only 1-3 attempts lost tops.

And while this may not have been obvious (as I did not state it), but my recommendation is to swap specs just for H LK.  I’m not recommending using those specs on a day to day basis in all encounters.  I’m talking about using it specifically for H LK.

If you don’t think 100g is worth the extra raid utility (respec to and from), then I’d question your dedication to killing the boss if you were in my guild.

As I have said a few times now however, if your guild is not having issues with Valk debuffing and cc, then this may not apply to you.

As to Chains of Ice, you are not only hurting your dps more by doing this than a talent point shift, but it has other issues as well.  CoI will only debuff their movement by 50%, but it will prevent other slow effects from being applied until the CoI move debuff degrades to an equivalent or lesser slow.  So you’re now stopping guild members from applying slows some of the time.

In addition to all of that, you’re now talking about 3.0 seconds to apply three debuffs, swapping targets, and not getting in full dps.  So not only are you’re slows taking longer to be applied (and yes 3 seconds matters there a lot), but you’re also doing less dps to the targets.

And that does not even discuss the fact that you said you’d be in Unholy Presence.  Not only is that a DPS loss, but you also have wasted runes getting into that presence, and back out of it for this Chains of Ice strat.

CoI should be a “last resort” option when other methods have failed.  It should not be what is relied upon for slowing.

Consider wrote:

No, Outbreak doesn’t outweigh 3/5 Necrosis for Frost DW. Most certainly not!

Using Desecration isn’t just easier (not that CoIing is difficult), but it’s more dps. With CoI you sacrifice 3 GCDs and 3 Frost Runes (or, rather, 2 Frost and 1 Death). That’s a huge loss in damage – perhaps not over the entire course of the fight, but certainly for the short duration the Valkyrs are up and burst dps matters most. And what happens when you need to refresh CoI? More GCDs and runes down the drawn.

You can argue that changing your spec isn’t worth the hassle (although I would heavily disagree – progression matters more than farm, no matter how few of the first and how many of the latter exist), but you can’t try and say that Desecration is worse than CoIng. It’s superior to such a degree that it’s rather silly to try and argue it.

IUP I would personally disagree with – engineering boot enchant is sufficient for Defile, and when running the rest of the time you can usually stick to a boss/mob for minimal dps loss. Not a huge difference either which way, though.

Outbreak – what he said.

Desecration – I agree.  See previous comment response as well.

As to Improved Unholy Presence, if you were and Engineer and have the Nitro Boots enchant then I would agree with Consider.  That is more than sufficient for the times when you mess up, or are in trouble.

However most of the Death Knights out there are probably not Engineers.  I feel that is safe to assume considering the quantity of trade skills available.

If you don’t have that TS, then I still recommend using IUP.  It should not be more than a 200 dps loss tops.  If you have the legendary and almost full BIS gear, then the dps loss should be no more than 260 dps worst case scenario.

Regular boot enchants are fine for most movement requirements here, but usually a few situations can arise (especially someone dropping a bad Defile) where every second counts when running.  For those situations, a minor dps loss for the extra movement is more than worth it imo.

Deoxis wrote:

Very nice post! However, I think there needs to be more discussion on your reasoning for IUP. I don?t think anyone disagrees that the movement bonus is necessary. It?s pretty obvious to anyone that cares. I think you should discuss the pros and cons of IUP vs cat?s swiftness. Is the rune refresh speed important? Is it more of a dps loss from old boot enchant to cat?s swiftness than necrosis to IUP. That sort of thing.

Hm…  Improved Unholy Presence is 15% movement.  Cat’s Swiftness is 8% movement.  So we’re talking about giving up roughly 200 dps in order to gain 7% more movement speed.  Any dps gain from a new enchant on your boots (if any) would be negligible in comparison.

Again, I’ll also readdress Consider’s point above as I had not thought about it.  If you are an Engineer and have the Nitro Boots enchant, then I don’t think that IUP is as big of a deal.  If you play smart, skill can cover you most of the way while Nitro Boots covers you the rest.

That said, I don’t find anything wrong with using both Nitro Boots and IUP, but YMMV.  That’s a personal decision with no “correct” answer I think.  Chalk it up to personal preference.

Now for the rest of the DK’s out there (w/o Eng), that rune refresh aspect doesn’t exist to you.  Got it?  You should not be in Unholy Presence.  You should be in Blood Presence.  The entire purpose of IUP is to get the movement buff…

As to the pros and cons…  I think I’m gonna have to say that this entire post, and the previous post and comments should speak for itself by this point.  I listed a cookie cutter build with Desecration for those who do not think IUP is worth it, and an alternate for those who do think it’s worth it.

Some people will agree that utility is more valuable than dps, while others will never see utility being greater than dps, no matter how small the dps gain is.  That’s just the way it is.  So on that point, whichever spec you choose is personal preference, and YMMV.  That’s why I listed two specs to use.

My preference is to use IUP at H LK.

-Suffer Well Brothers and Sisters…

Keep in mind however that most guilds have their own little quirks to their strategies, so I’m having to keep some of this “open ended” to be applied to alternative deviations.

Disclaimer aside, it’s fricking H LK!!  Time to buckle down and set your sights on the end game!

Unholy H LK Spec

I’ve actually got 2 different permutations depending on your personal wants, needs, and preferences.  However Desecration is a “mandatory” talent for any H LK encounter.

Whenever you start attacking a Valkyr you will apply an automatic movement debuff that should affect all three of the Valks if your guild did everything right.

“Cookie Cutter” 0/17/54

This spec drops 1 point from Necrosis and 1 point from Unholy Blight in order to purchase Desecration.  Otherwise, this is cookie cutter to a T.

I’ve personally found Unholy Blight does less dps than 1 point in Necrosis.  However if you have different results feel free to keep UB and take 2 points out of Necrosis instead.

“SJ’s Spec”  0/17/54

This spec drops 3 points from Necrosis and 1 point from Unholy Blight in order to purchase Desecration and Improved Unholy Presence.

Desecration is mandatory.  So don’t even question that one.  So why IUP?  Movement is a defining factor in the H LK encounter.

• Shadow Traps (run away from them)
• Necrotic Plague (run to the shambling horror in time)
• Defile (run the hell away from the center and the defile itself)
• Harvest Souls (run away from the bombs)
• Noticing a trend yet?

Movement is a key and defining aspect of this encounter.  As I discussed previously in my post: Unholy Specs, a revist on dps and %’s… talents such as Necrosis and Unholy Blight only represent approximately 100 dps per talent point.

So the question is, what’s more important?  200 dps or being able to move quickly enough to stay alive and do your job?  If you even considered answering 200 dps then you failed.

Thoughts on H LK

You need to do the basics of course.  Go watch some videos, read the strats, check your mods, do your homework, etc…

2 Second Policy

That said I think you should implement a 2 second policy on all movement defining abilities.  If something could require you to move, move 2 seconds before you would have normally.

You should be where you need to be before the last possible second.  There is no need to cut it down to the wire when learning the encounter.

Ghouls and AoE

Also, stop padding meters in P1.  Yes I understand the desire to hit Pestilence and do all of that yummy AoE dps to the ghouls, but stop doing it.

If even one ghoul agros on to you, then that is healing wasted on you and that much more effort on the tank’s part trying to get them on to themselves.  The ghouls will be killed.

P1 is about dps’ing the LK down as quikly as possible.  Using any ability that does no damage to LK to do damage to adds is only a failure on your part.  Pestilence, Blood Boil, or Death and Decay should not exist to you during P1 before the first transition.

Stop and Think

It sounds basic, but so many people just do not do this.  Quit looking at everything else and pay attention to boss ability cool downs and upcoming required movement.  This is paramount.

Frost vs Unholy

My guild kills 11/12 H LK every week.  So everything is on “farm” status.  So the question I keep asking myself is why I am playing as Frost for H LK when Unholy is the superior spec there for raid utility?

If you have movement debuffs totally covered every single time, then you could stay as Frost with no issue.  But if the movement debuffs are an issue at all, then you need to consider swapping to Unholy for this encounter.

What’s more important?  The 11 bosses you have on farm status or the 1 boss you can’t kill yet?  I’m probably going to be talking to my guild officers about swapping to Unholy for this encounter myself.

-Suffer Well Brothers and Sisters…

Heya guys!!  I’ve been really busy lately, but it’s time for some SJ centric observations regarding WoW.  Whether it’s real life or Heroic Lich King, it’s important to always take a step back and examine what it is you’re doing and why.

Time…  What’s Enough?

Right now I am raiding 4 nights a week and spending 4-5 hours on average per raid after you calculate the prep time before raid start, etc…  Which isn’t much, especially compared to some top end raiding guilds.

However I currently have to break up my sleep schedule for raid nights.  The way the raid times fall, and my work schedule, it’s impossible to get a full 8 hours of sleep before or after raid times.  So what to do?

I usually take a 1-2 hour nap before the raid and then sleep for about 5 hours after the raid before I go into work (that’s 4 nights a week).  It works pretty well and I have 3 nights a week where I sleep whenever I want.  No complaints.

But when I was recently asked to work on 10man H LK 2 nights a week (and agreed before I thought about it) I started stressing out and wanted to /wrists!  Six nights of interrupted sleep?  !@#$ that!!

It’s important for people to remember that WoW is still just a game.

I’ve since decided that I’m not going to be doing 10mans unless someone happens to run one when it’s convenient for me on my off nights, because I sure as hell plan on sleeping when I want and for as long as I want on those nights!!

So what’s the point? Don’t lose yourself in WoW.  Sure, it’s a great escape and I won’t be one to tell someone to log off most likely.  But if you’re noticing any stress levels resultant from WoW play time, stop and reexamine what it is that you’re doing.

Frost vs Unholy

So I spent some more time recently going through WoL and just thinking about Frost vs Unholy.  The following is an observation based off of about an hour of research at WoL, so it cannot be considered 100% accurate of conclusive.  The rest is just my opinion.

Weapons

Pretty much most Unholy ranked DK’s seem to have the legendary Shadowmourne.  And pretty much most Frost ranked DK’s seem to have Bloodvenom Blade.

Gemming

Unholy is pretty much Strength gems with Strength/Haste gems.  Frost is pretty much Armor Penetration gems, but there are some top 200 ranked with Strength gems.  One was even ranked 25 on DBS using Str gems as Frost, but they did have the 1H from H LK 25.

DPS Discrepancy

Unholy pretty much beats Frost for DPS (I use the bottom of the top 200 for the basis of my decision) by a range of 1000 DPS on average (very rough estimate).  This is mostly a ballpark estimate, feel free to research for more accurate data.

That said, as above, most Unholy top 200 ranked DK’s have Shadowmourne, while most Frost DK’s have Bloodvenom Blade.  So it’s not really equal footing.

SJ Thoughts

Equally geared and skilled I think the 2 specs are as close to being equal as is physically possible.  Grats to Blizzard, you finally got it right!!

Unlike pretty much every other class available, Death Knights have two dps specs available which are amazingly close in maximum potential.

Without a legendary, Frost will likely pull ahead of Unholy for fights that are more tank and spank centric.  However in movement fights such as Prof Put, expect to see Unholy take the lead.  This of course is a theoretical dps comparison in which gear, skill, encounter, etc… are all 100% equal.

As to gemming ARP for Frost.  I honestly believe that ARP is a dps gain over Str for Frost.  That said, I don’t think the gain is as much as some people would like to think.  Feel free to gem how you like imo.  There is a strong argument to gem for Str as Frost for respec potential.

IMO (no factual basis of research) I think gemming ARP over strength is only a dps gain of a few hundred points.  1000 DPS tops, and I’m not convinced of that either.

What’s next?

This is basically a “Coming Soon” list.  And it helps me to post it so I can go back and be like, “Oh yeah!!  That was what I wanted to write about!”

Questions and Answers by SJ

I let a lot of comments and e-mails build up this last week in the hopes of it generating 1-2 Q&A posts.  No I’m not ignoring you guys, I’m setting up posts!

Trinkets

Had a request recently to have a post about trinkets.  This is on the list.

H LK Theory Crafting

I’m having to work on this in raids, so why not share the love?  Some is targeted to all, but a lot is DK centric.

Recent Cataclysm Information

Everyone else is talking about it, why not me to?!!? 

Special Post

Coming soon!!  A surprise.

Have something you want Skeleton Jack to write about?

TELL ME!! Leave a comment or write me some e-mails!!

Skeleton.Jack@hotmail.com

-Suffer Well Brothers and Sisters…

Heya guys!!  So I got the Bloodvenom Blade last night, woot!!  Sadly I only have Last Laugh for my OH…  So much room for a “Who’s got the last laugh now?” line.  Yeah, I know…it’s bad.  Both the pun and the weapon. 

But, that now opens up the door for me to try out DW Frost as soon as I get my hands on a decent OH weapon.  So it’s time for a spec…

Frost DW DPS 3.3.3

0/52/15 – If you’ve been following DW Frost, this spec should very familiar already.  I can’t really see much of a way to improve it, or to justify points being pulled for versatility like with Unholy.  But it does leave 4 points open to shift around.

Personally I am leaning towards 0/53/18.  However if I find that I have threat issues I will be dropping the 1 point in Chill of the Grave for 1 point in Subversion.

Once I get a decent off hand and can get some logs done, I’ll give you guys more of a heads up on versatility changes and possible alterations that could work.

Rotation

Always try to remember that DK rotations are a guideline, and not the answer.  It’s more about priorities.

Frost Priority

1. KM Frost Strike
2. Frost Fever/Blood Plague (use Pest w/GoD)
3. If going to Runic Power cap, FS
4. Obliterate
5. Blood Strike
6. Frost Strike
7. Rime (HB)

Frost Rotation

IT – PS – BS – Pest – OB  (opening rotation)

OB – OB – OB (alternate with below)

OB – BS – Pest – OB (alternate with above)

Work Frost Strike, Rime, and Horn of Winter between GCD’s.

AoE Priority

1. KM Howling Blast (3 or more targets)
2. Howling Blast (normal or Rime) (3 or more targets)
3. Frost Fever/Blood Plague (use Pest w/GoD)
4. Death and Decay (4 or more targets)
5. Obliterate (remember it can proc Rime)
6. Blood Boil (3 or more targets)
7. Frost Strike

If you have questions as always drop a comment here on the site!  I don’t always answer, but someone else will usually even if I don’t.

Note: To play Frost effectively you need to be able to track Killing Machine and Freezing Fog (Rime) buffs to use them effectively.  Get a mod to assist you.  I personally use Tell Me When, and love the hell out of it.  But feel free to use whatever you prefer.

-Suffer Well Brothers and Sisters…

Heya guys!!

So if you missed my previous post A Breakdown on Unholy DPS %’s including pets and talents, then you might want to check it out first.

SO!!  DPS!!  o.O

At what point can you make a decision to sacrifice core dps talents for utility talents?  The answer is that only you can answer that question.  But I can give you some ideas and guidelines to making it.

Utility

This can be about 2 things.  Either making the game more fun or gaining tools for various situations.  The question comes in when deciding what you want?

At the top of the list are a few talents:

• On a Pale Horse – fun factor
• Morbidity – improved AoE capacity
• Improved Unholy Presence – fun factor and imp movement (read run out of the “fire”)
• Reaping – rotation ease (good for people with bad latency)

Losing DPS

For an idea of how to breakdown your % dps (not counting pets) you should see the previous post linked at the top of this post.

Once you have broken down how much dps you are gaining from your talents then you can make some serious decisions.  Most likely you will find, if properly geared and spec’d, that Unholy Blight and Necrosis are your two lowest dps gains.

They should = roughly 1% dps each.  I looked at a parse of an Unholy DK with Shadowmourne with some ilvl277 gear doing 13k dps on a static fight.  His Necrosis was only doing 122 dps per point spent, also at 1% of his total dps (4.9% total for 5 points to be exact).

So even with top end gear and the best weapon in game, Necrosis isn’t *all that* important.  Unholy Blight falls into the same category, but as it’s more useful on non-static fights I’d suggest pulling from Necrosis first (all things being equal).

So realistically dropping points from Necrosis will result in a loss of roughly 50-130 dps (per talent point) depending on your gear, raid makeup, etc…  A rough estimate of 100 dps per talent point is reasonable.  But you really should check your damage on boss encounters to be sure.

Trade Offs

I am personally trying out a 0/17/54 spec atm, dropping 2 points from Necrosis and gaining Improved Unholy Presence.  IE. losing 200 dps to gain 15% movement speed.  To me it is 100% worth it.  For fun factor alone I’d lose 200 dps for the movement speed buff.

But also from a boss encounter perspective, there are enough encounters that require heavy movement for it to be worth it in my eyes.  And that is where you have to make the decision on your own.  Is the trade off worth it?

Maximum Losses

So at what point do you call it quits?  How much dps can you give up for utility?

I think that a 500 dps loss would be too much, but again that is a decision you have to make for yourself.  As I am working on Hard Mode content I do not think that I would sacrifice more than 2-3 talent points in dps for utility, but you may prefer otherwise.

That said, I will never recommend losing 500 dps or more by re-talenting for utility or fun in raid content.  YMMV.

Fin

I don’t think I need to touch on utility vs dps much more.  I’ve kind of beaten this horse into the ground.  But I realized after so many people (even on EJ) jumped my theories and trashed it, it was time to put things into perspective.

If you think 200ish dps is more important than say Reaping or Imp UP, then that’s your business.  But you can’t tell me that it’s a bad decision if you can get something out of it.  200 dps out of 10k+ dps is nothing.  Sorry.

GL to you all!! 

-Suffer Well Brothers and Sisters…

So for my application to a new guild I needed to get a combat log together.  I figured why not talk about it some? 

I’ve had multiple posts and discussions in the past few weeks regarding the talent Reaping.  Which at it’s heart is actually about being willing to sacrifice dps to gain utility.  So today I’m going to use a log to give you numbers for actual comparison.

World of Logs Combat Log

WoL All Boss Kills Damage Done by Spell (click on tab “Damage by spell”)

• Melee (white hits): 26.5%
• Scourge Strike (total): 16.1% (1 talent point)
• Death Coil: 10.3%
• Frost Fever: 9.1% (glyphed)
• Blood Plague: 7.3%
• Blood Strike: 7.0%
• Wandering Plague: 6.3% (3 talent points)
• Necrosis: 4.9% (5 talent points)
• Blood-Caked Strike: 3.4% (3 talent points)
• Plague Strike: 3.1%
• Icy Touch: 2.7%
• Unholy Blight: 0.8% (1 talent point)

These numbers are the % of my damage done by spell or ability in an ICC25 normal run.  I was with a pug group called GMT10, which is a conglomeration of players on US-Bronzebeard who play late at night from various guilds.

Interestingly enough, it’s also become a sort of “testing” ground as applicants to guilds will get sent there sometimes to be checked out.  There were at least 2-3 applicants to various guilds on my server in the run last night.

Now keep in mind this is my average damage done for the boss kills (not attempts) for all of ICC25 normal excepting BQL, Sindragosa, and LK.  In specific fights these numbers will vary…this is the average.

While this is not an all inclusive look at Unholy DK’s, it’s a sample you can look at (if you don’t have a combat log of your own) to see how some of the talents and glyphs play out in your dps.

Damage Done

The numbers above can be misleading, as they are the % of my personal damage and not my total damage including pets.  So lets recalculate the % of my dps that they account for taking my pets into account.  Pets include Army of the Dead, Ghouls, and Gargoyles.

Total Average DPS: 9625 (WoL link)

Total Damage Done: 20,367,476

Total Damage Done by SJ: 16,377,484 (80.41%)

Total Damage Done by Pets: 3,989,992 (19.59%)

• Pets: 19.59% (1885.5 dps)
• Melee (white hits): 21.55% (2074.2 dps)
• Scourge Strike (total): 13.13% (1 talent point) (1263.8 dps)
• Death Coil: 8.35% (803.7 dps)
• Frost Fever: 7.44% (glyphed) (716.1 dps)
• Blood Plague: 5.98% (575.6 dps)
• Blood Strike: 5.73% (551.5 dps)
• Wandering Plague: 5.15% (3 talent points) (495.7 dps)
• Necrosis: 4.0% (5 talent points) (385 dps)
• Blood-Caked Strike: 2.56% (3 talent points) (246.4 dps)
• Plague Strike: 2.56% (246.4 dps)
• Icy Touch: 2.18% (209.8)
• Unholy Blight: 0.65% (1 talent point) (62.6 dps)
• Total: 98.87% (if you look at the log, there were a few other abilities all accounting for less than 0.5% that I did not include)

Of Note:

• My average dps per boss was 9625 dps.
• 1% of my average dps = 96.25 dps
• Frost Fever did 7.44% of my damage while Blood Plague did 5.98% of my damage.  Since the diseases should do roughly equal damage, you can estimate that the Glyph of Icy Touch accounted for 1.46% of my damage (or 140.5 dps).
• Wandering Plague did 5.15% of my damage, so 1 point in that talent equated to 1.72% of my damage (or 165.6 dps).
• Necrosis did 4.0% of my damage, so 1 point in that talent equated to 0.8% of my damage (or 77 dps).
• Blood-Caked Strike did 2.56% of my damage, so 1 point in that talent equated to 0.85% of my damage (or 81.8 dps).
• Unholy Blight did 0.65% of my damage (or 62.6 dps).

What does this mean?

Well, first you should get a combat log of your own performance so you can see how much dps you are gaining from your own talents, glyphs, and abilities.  But this example is a template you can use to examine your own numbers, or just make a leap of logic to interpret your own decisions.

How much does dps mean to you when compared to utility?  Lets say that you are having threat issues on encounters without Subversion.  Well, can you afford to drop say Unholy Blight (which was only 62.6 dps of my 9625dps) in order to pick up one point in Subversion to alleviate threat issues?  Probably.

Like this example, you can come to some decisions very easily on your own once you know what the *REAL* numbers are.  Losing 5% dps sounds scary as hell!!  Losing 481 dps (5% of my dps in this log), changing your dps from 9625 dps to 9144 dps, doesn’t really sound so bad however.

If you really, *really* have to have Improved Unholy Presence, what are you willing to sacrifice to get it?    Using myself as an example, I could sacrifice 1 point in Unholy Blight (62.6 dps) and 1 point in Necrosis (77 dps) for a total loss of 139.6 dps to get Imp UP.  Is dropping from 9625 dps to 9485.4 dps worth gaining 15% movement speed?  Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t.  But you can at least make that decision better informed now.

What should you do?

Go get this mod:  Logger Head and go set up an account at WoL.  Get everything set up and upload a combat log one night from a raid.  It would probably be a good idea to turn off unnecessary mods like Auctioneer, alt mods, etc while doing this (anything memory intensive).

Get a log from your raids uploaded (preferably 3 total to get a good sample size) and check your own dps numbers.  How much dps are your talents actually giving you?  Remember, the damage by spell section doesn’t count your pets.  You’ll have to do some basic math on your own here to get accurate results.

From there you can decide for yourself what you might be willing to sacrifice (dps wise) in order to pick up more utilitarian talents.

What’s the point?

On any given run your dps can fluctuate by as much as 5%  to 10%.  This could be due to luck, lag, deaths, buffs, mistakes, positioning, having an off night (or good night), etc…  Chances are, if you make a decision to alter your talent tree by 1-3 points netting in a dps loss of less than 5% you will never even notice the change.

I’ve seen people’s dps jump and shift by as much a 2k between raid weeks on certain bosses.  If you drop 2 points in dps talents that net less than a 200 dps loss, you will never even feel it.

Don’t be afraid to think outside the box.  *That* is the point.

Is losing 200 dps for 15% movement speed worth it at Prof Put, BQL, Sindragosa, and LK?  Is losing less than 100 dps worth a threat reduction when you’re getting threat capped?  More than likely the answer is yes.  But you can decide for yourself.

-Suffer Well Brothers and Sisters…

Heya guys!!  So today we’re gonna get into one of the more confusing aspects of WoW.  Or at least, very often misunderstood.  Having uber leet roxorz deepz!!!  o.O

Three of the biggest names in combat logs are WoW Web Stats, WoW Meters Online, and World of Logs.  Otherwise known as WWS, WMO, and WoL.  And let’s not forget the ranking systems they have.

One of the most famous examples is on WMO.  The current link to the top 20 DPS results for DK’s from WMO looks like this:  (click me!!)

The initial reaction of most players when they see stuff like this is to freak out, “OMG LOOK AT THAT DPS!!!  HOW DO I DO THAT MUCH DPS?!!?” The truth is you don’t.

Unless you upgrade on *everything*, you won’t likely ever do that much.  And when I say *everything*, I mean *everything*.  We’re not just talking about gear.  We’re talking about the whole kit and kaboodle (how often do you get to work that into a sentence?! ).

Combat Log Sites

The first and most important thing you need to know about these sites is that they do not measure dps in the same manner that mods do.

The typical mod, such as Recount, measures your dps based off of your activity.  If you’re hitting something (whether that be you, a pet, or a disease ticking away) then it counts you as being in combat.  If you’re not hitting something, then it counts you as being out of combat.

So that travel time to the boss on the pull, transitions where you have no pet or dot on the boss, etc… does not count against your dps.  A site like WMO however ranks the top dps by the entire length of the fight.  They only care about how long the fight took.

Let’s say you went into a boss fight that lasted for 5 minutes even.  That is a total of 300 seconds of combat from the time the boss is agro’d to the time it dies.  And in that fight you did 3,000,000 damage (3 million).  But during the encounter you lost a total of 15 seconds due to movement and phase transitioning.  How much dps did you do?

By a mod such as Recount you would have done 3,000,000 dmg / 285 sec = 10526 DPS.  However a ranking site like WMO doesn’t care about your inactive time.  As far as it’s concerned, your dps is measured by the total boss encounter.  So by WMO you would have done 3,000,000 dmg / 300 sec = 10000 DPS.

Now in this example 15 seconds of inactivity results in a net loss of 526 DPS.  That extra travel time to run to the boss because you were 10 yards behind the tank?  That extra time to run around the room because you didn’t know your exact positioning?  That time where you ran in the wrong direction at first?  All account and attribute for DPS losses on ranking sites.

So if you want to hold yourself up to these ranked sites, the very first thing you need to learn is how to improve your dps in regard to the total boss encounter length.

Top Raiding Guilds

The next thing you need to learn is why the top end guilds always have players scoring in the top ranks.

Let’s say you are an amazing player and do between 8k-13k dps per encounter.  And then let’s say that you have a few more exceptional members in your guild y, but the rest are lackluster.  They do well, but they never do *really well*.  Let’s say they do 5k-9k dps per encounter.

Now let’s look at a top end guild x where the lackluster members are nearly non-existent.  Everyone is pulling 8k-13k dps per encounter.  How much faster are they killing a boss than you are?

Take a boss with 32 million hp.  If guild x has 18 DPS doing 10k dps on average they will kill that boss in 3 minutes.  If guild y has 18 DPS doing 8k dps on average (and I’m being generous for some people) they will kill the same boss in 3 min and 42 sec.

Why does that matter?  The shorter a fight, the more dps you are going to do in a raid.  Always.

It all comes down to cool down abilities, whether it be Heroism, trinkets, abilities, etc…  The more that are used within a shorter period of time, the more dps that you do.  If you use 5 cool down abilities in a fight that lasts 3 minutes, you will do more dps than you would have using 5 cool down abilities in a fight that lasts 4 minutes.

So if you play with average players who do moderate dps, increasing the length of a fight, they in turn are actually decreasing your dps.  Raiding is more about teamwork than most people realize.  You need the rest of the dps to do well in order for you to do well.

End story?  The shorter the fight the better.  It is actually possible to out dps the top ranked players by “active time”, but because the top end guilds have less total “inactive time” and shorter fights they will always be at an advantage over other players…

Stupid Gimmicks

What are these?  Let’s say you’re an Unholy Death Knight (go figure I’d use that as an example, heh).  And let’s say you happen to have 1 Blood DK and 3 Rogues in the party.  And let’s say you’re a cheese ball.  You get the Blood DK to hit you with Hysteria every time it’s up and also have the Rogues spam Tricks of the Trade on you as well.

That will *massively* change your dps.  And some of the people who get ranked on sites do this.  Not all, but some.

So what does it all mean?

It basically means you need to be aware that your “awesome” damage could be “suck”.  Or that your “suck” damage is more “suck” than you realized…  And then there is also the chance that you do “amazing” dps, but the ranking sites will never recognize it.

I can’t tell you what this means to you because I don’t know how much dps that you actually do.  But if you’re interested, now at least you have an idea of how it all works.  You can go to these sites and learn how to upload combat logs fairly easily.  And you can also keep a mod like Recount running.  It’s all up to you whether you’d like to put in the effort is all.

Being a Top DPS’er

This really comes down to the total package:

• Solid Computer System
• Top Notch Guild
• Leet Skillz
• Good Mods
• Solid Keybindings
• And more…

When I said upgrade *everything*, I meant everything…  It’s not just about being better.  It’s about your computer, your mods, your keybinds, your macros, your guild…everything…

But more importantly its also about being a total “Bad Ass”.  Being a bad ass is kind of like being in love.  Someone can’t tell you that you’re in love.  You can’t ‘think’ that you’re in love.  You can’t wonder if you’re in love.  You *know* when you’re in love with someone.  Being a bad ass is the same thing.  You either know you’re a bad ass, or you don’t.

But just like being in love, there are idiots out there who think they are when they’re not.  *shrug*  There are always going to be morons…

-Suffer Well Brothers and Sisters…

So this was just going to be a comment for the previous post, but it got long winded so it’s an additional post now.  *smirk*

What post you ask?  Skeleton Jack’s 3.3.3 Unholy Spec

Deathsdemise: what is ur rotation for ur spec u are using the 0/17/54 spec

ST: IT – PS – BS – BS – SS // SS – SS – SS – HoW

This is the base static rotation placing HoW at the end.  I typically use HoW right after I hit AotD before the tank runs in.  Yes, you should be getting the tank to give you a 4-5 sec heads up before every pull (or hunter if it’s a misdirect pull).  You fit in DC where ever you can remembering not to go over your RP cap.

You should also be watching your procs at the start of a fight so you can pop Gargoyle early, giving you more time to use it later for shorter fights.  Your starting rotation may not fire off DC’s right away if you get your buff procs early to fire off your Gargoyle.

AoE: DnD – IT – PS – Pest // BB – SS – SS – BB – HoW

I use DnD early because the tanks I run with can handle it.  If yours can’t, move DnD to the end.  As always, work in DC as GCD’s permit and don’t go over RP cap.

As always rotations can shift depending on your role, circumstances, movement, etc…

Yorgi: Okay the difference I noticed straight away is the with the non reaping frost subspec it takes me quite a bit of time to build up my dps, with your build Jack I seem to almost burst my way up there?I know burst and Unholy don?t seem to go together

I will do a proper test tonight if we get enough turn up to raid but atm it seems to be an improvement and the added versatitly of reaping will hopefully help in the heavy movement fights.

The heavier ramp up (bursty feel) is from the extra SS’s (hits like a mack truck) due to reaping.

Branith: I too tried reaping, however the sims proved correct and it was a DPS loss taking it, I went back to Necrosis and with the new stat weights of haste, replacing all your orange str/crit gems with Str/haste and gettting herkemis (frost badge trinket) im pushing 12k dps on all fights in ICC (not counting blood queen of course) Necrosis scales so much more haste and top end gear, and as I see with your gear SJ, other then weapon and trinkets its subpar for 25man ICC. Also ill point out that Herkumis has moved up to 3rd BiS not counting heroic trinkets.

Your argument is backed by a feeling on your part without conclusive facts, proof, or reasoning.  The spec I have listed here is only a 3 talent point shift from EJ’s Unholy recommendation.  That will not equate to even a 3% dps difference.  Most likely less.

You supposedly tried my spec and actually noticed a dps loss?  Then you’re not being honest with either yourself or me and my readers.  Luck, lag, raid composition, and statistically proven data show that individual dps can fluctuate by as much as 10% (sometimes more) for one person on specific encounters each week.

It is a physical impossibility that you could notice or prove a dps difference from the spec because there are too many other factors involved.  And the EJ posters would, and will, tell you the same thing.  You can’t prove it in real in game scenarios.  Your test sample size is so small as to prove inconclusive and inaccurate at best.

As to my gear, I thought you read my blog?  I’ve not been raiding for the last 2 months due to my new job.  Of course I have Str/Crit gems(3 total which were the gem of choice 3 months ago) and my gear is not top of the line.  I just did my first raid on SJ last night in over 2 months, hence my shiny new helm, boots, and neck.  Did 10man heroic ICC and cleared first wing + BQL all on heroic.  Was hella fun, and none to shabby my first day back in several months if I do say so myself.

As to your definition of “subpar”, that is a matter of perspective.  People (top 100 guilds included) first started clearing ICC 25 Heroic in 250ish to 264 ilvl gear (which I have), so how you get to “subpar” is beyond me.  Did you think guilds started attempting Heroic mode in ilvl277 gear?  That didn’t happen.

I’m not a fan of the Herkumi War Token (except for DW Frost) due to the ramp up time and falling off issues.  Even EJ caveat’s that trinket as only good if you can keep the stacks up, and they have discussion talking about how if it doesn’t have x uptime, it becomes subpar.  Since you like to quote EJ frequently, I double checked.    I prefer proc trinkets for Unholy for pet purposes personally.

Groundtaster: trying this spec tonight on a few bosses, instead of my normal frost dps spec?  Will see how things go, i want it to work but just don?t think it?ll beat frost dps even on moving fights for me? we?ll see though, doing ICC 25

As to whether Unholy or Frost wins the dps race, I’m not sure.  You can’t use something like WoL or WMO to judge simple because the raidwide buff kept changing through recent progression and you have people placing on those sites with Shadowmourne.  Both of those factors skews the test samples immensely.  Poking around forums on a few sites I saw references to both Frost taking the lead and Unholy taking the lead.

That may be more likely due to misconstrued results from people trying both specs when their gear likely leans more to one side (Frost or Unholy) due to the stat weights for their chosen gear.  For now I think they’re close enough in performance that you should run with whichever you enjoy the most and have the gear to support.

-Suffer Well Brothers and Sisters…