Comments on: Leveling a DK: An Introduction to basic concepts.

By: Dogmeat

Dogmeat — Thu, 15 Apr 2010 15:33:54 +0000

If you are tanking in Heroics, I definitely do need the snap aggro that Frost provides when you are at lower gear levels when compared to your DPS’ raid gear (and even that it’s not always enough). However, I’m curious as to whether this changes based on the fact that, by definition, when you’re leveling through dungeon finder that you’re NOT dealing with highly geared DPS? Or said another way, is the need for snap aggro like Frost gives you only necessary when there is a large disparity between the DK Tank’s gear vs. the DPS’ gear in the DPS’ favor?

By: Strumkuss (use to be Deathwasp)

Strumkuss (use to be Deathwasp) — Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:33:58 +0000

gosh, this is the 1st time this year I have been back to the blog (since Nov of last year) and I am astounded at the changes in your thinking – Unholy, blood worms, etc (and do I need to say? Yes, say! say!) TANKING, a DK TANKING?!?! OMG, SJ, what brought this change about? Well, I am going to try and go backwards thru the site to see why and how this all came about. Glad to see you back to work, gaming and blogging!

By: Randiron of Dragonblight

Randiron of Dragonblight — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:39:39 +0000

I’m a dk through and through. I’ve respec’d *literally* dozens of times to personally try out different combinations of talents. I’ve leveled many dk’s on other servers just to try out other concepts. In other words, I have put some serious time into building first-hand in-depth knowledge of how dk’s work best.

At this moment, I’m running a blood/unholy hybrid tank as my main spec. My dps isn’t what it could be if I just picked on over the other, but I’ve found that blood’s self-heals just can’t be beat (what other tank can solo Loken in H HoL after the rest of the party gets nuked in the first nova?). As for the unholy? Let me say that the perma-ghoul is a vastly underrated ability.

2 major benefits of the perma-ghoul: instant death pact as an “oh shit” button. No waiting for slow dead n ugly to climb out of the ground. 2nd, skillful control of your minion can help you pull packs of mobs *much* faster.

All of these thing apply to leveling. In fact, even if you’re leveling a dps, taking self-preservation talents doesn’t hurt – staying alive means less down time in gy runs, and you can (and should) respec when you ding 80 anyway.

As for HoR, I have no problems with threat, thanks to Morbidity’s reduction to DnD’s cd. Glyph it, love it. Don’t worry about killing everything yourself, just keep the DnD down and keep your group alive. DG as much as possible to bring those pesky mages back into range.

Best of all, as a blood tank, you don’t have to care about kill order for those waves. What little you can’t just ignore, you can heal through easily.

@Jack: Thank you for all your work, research and random thoughts alike. Your site is the first place I go for my weekly reading material during server maint!

By: Kauket

Kauket — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 14:53:09 +0000

The huge gaping hole in blood tanking is snap AOE aggro on the fly. In most of your leveling dungeons, that’s not an issue so long as you control the pacing. DnD, set up diseases, pestilence, and you’re golden. Just ensure that you have Rune Strike macroed in everywhere, e.g.:

#showtooltip Death Strike
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/cast !Rune Strike
/cast Death Strike
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()
/startattack

(I jam /startattack everywhere just so that I wouldn’t have to worry about having runes, etc available if I go tab target switching: just hit any attack, and know you’ll at least be autoattacking.)

Where blood tanking has utterly failed me (to the extent that I stopped tanking on my DK and leveled a bear instead) was the HoR gauntlet. PoS ramp and tunnel are damned unpleasant, but I got through them; however, the strung out waves of mobs in the gauntlet are as bad as a situation can get for a blood tank.

DnD’s cooldown makes it available about every 2nd wave, but do you have the right runes up? Empower Rune Weapon’s 5 minute cooldown just isn’t enough. Blood Boil just doesn’t generate enough threat unless you have diseases spread around, and how many times has the mob from which you’re going to Pestilence died just before you hit the button?

Spent about an hour trying to take down the gauntlet once early on…even got on vent with the guild’s DK tank for advice. Know that fight a lot better now, it may’ve been that the 3 PUG DPS just couldn’t kill the waves fast enough, but I haven’t been motivated to go back and try again.

The bear, on the other hand, has tanked the gauntlet in mostly blues with a few greens and purples.

By: Link Love: The Drama Week | The Lazy Sniper

Link Love: The Drama Week | The Lazy Sniper — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 15:04:14 +0000

[...] to level more, but I find them pretty damn fun and Skeleton Jack’s introduction guide to levelling a DK is a very good starting point. All in all, whatever you level, try to have some fun, go against [...]

By: Skeleton Jack

Skeleton Jack — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:19:26 +0000

Milkbone:
“Blood is not the only option” You have three specs. Of course it’s not the only option. That’s like saying the sky is blue. If you come here to look for advice however I am going to tell you what you *should* be doing.

You say that the agro does not compete. Well sir, you are wrong. I leveled 70-80 as a Blood tank after playing as an Unholy DK for well over a year with the occasional Frost specs throughout. For 10 levels I was in a dungeon non-stop as a Blood tank and *never* once had agro issues. If you do the same thing (while LEVELING, which is what this post is about) and have agro issues, then you are doing something wrong. I don’t intend to be mean, but that’s the truth.

The statement that they all work “great” is not true. When you can keep threat the entire time without issue and can also solo tank an entire pack of mobs without a healer without AotD consistently over 10 times, *THEN* you’re doing “great”. And Frost and Unholy just can’t do that consistently. Sorry. That is *great* imo.

RAIDS: Which to point out, this post is again about leveling, not 80+ content. Because Blood can only compare to Unholy for single target dps, and loses the game when dealing with AoE, that makes Unholy better by definition. As far as buffs, while the 13% magic buff from Unholy is far superior to Blood’s buffs, if you have a predominantly melee dps group in 10 man of course that could make Blood a priority. As with all advice, it is intended for the “majority”. There can, and will be, exceptions based upon play style, preferences, group make up, etc…

By: Weeps

Weeps — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 03:21:55 +0000

Definately agree with the post. Blood tanking is WIN in 5 mans. I personally use frost for tanking in raids tho, mainly because if i get stuck with a warrior tank who can’t get aoe threat, my raid won’t die.

Also agree with unholy leveling, I leveled Unholy back when wrath came out and took the movement talents immediatley. The leveling goes extremely fast with all the aoe pulls and movement speed increase. Also you can pretty much do any group quest solo, and I do mean ANY group quest. Of course this was back when dk’s were pretty OP. Unholy could tank Heroics in DPS gear in frost presence, it was freakin crazy back then. IBF and bone shield rotation was way cool.

By: Milkbone

Milkbone — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:51:22 +0000

A couple of quick caveats:
1) If you are talking about 5 man tanking, Blood is not the only option. The large health pool and self healing are great, but the aggro doesn’t compete. If you play well and have decent gear, you can figure it out. That having been said, with mediocre gear and skill, a Frost can still hold aggro (and stay alive). I Blood tank and like it the most. But, I do miss the days of frost tanking aggro. It just didn’t have the versatility I needed for endgame content.
In the end, all DK specs will work for 5MAN tanking.
Blood: Great health pools, self healing, group buff, and SINGLE target threat.
Frost: Best mitigation. No group buff. Did I mention best mitigation? Also some pretty great aggro for both AoE and Single target.
Unholy: Bone shield rules in single target situations, but if you get hit more than 4 times in a minute, the cooldown is too long. GREAT aoe aggro. Don’t try for end game content.

2) DPS: While it’s true that Unholy tends to top the DPS charts, the distance between Unholy and Blood on single target fights isn’t so great that it is a ‘clear choice.’ Frankly, I think unholy is more fun. Plus, the buff is great for casters. In my 10 man group, however, we need the melee buff more. I might do more damage as unholy, but not so much that one shouldn’t consider blood.

By: Skeleton Jack

Skeleton Jack — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:05:05 +0000

Misconceptions about Frost: People think you need that “snap” agro from the burst capacity of Frost, and you just don’t. Drop DnD as your lead in, IT, PS, Pest, RP, and you’re done. Following up with BB and HS as needed, combined with a talented/glyphed DnD is MORE than enough. I never lost agro in dungeons. And if you group with idiots who start attacking before you even have DnD down, I let them die. People like that are morons and deserve repair bills. That’s for 5man heroics too btw. Threat is not an issue for Blood. People *think* it is, but in actuality it’s not.

For the PuG morons who still have trouble, I had a simple macro that told people don’t dps until after you see the DnD down. I never had a problem as Blood leveling or in heroics.

DW Frost leveling will level up fine. However I have tried all leveling possibilities with a DK now. And DW Frost is the least effective sadly. The inherent reason for that is simply because DW is hit rating intensive, but also because it does not have the AoE/movement advantages of Unholy or the healing advantages of Blood.

By: Osirion

Osirion — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 01:06:52 +0000

I level frost DW. Personally I think im going at a decent rate. I’m not really going for speed but I think that leveling as the spec that I will raid with makes me that much better at playing in the end. By the time I do hit 80 I will have everything figured out and be ready to go right out of the gate.