7
Aug

3.2 Questions and Answers by SJ, Part 1

   Posted by: Skeleton Jack   in Questions

Heya guys!!  It’s been long overdue, but here we are with the newest installment of Questions & Answers by yours truly!  Hopefully you guys are not as confused as this man to the left, but if you are I’m here to allay your frustrations!!  ;)

For some old school answers to questions that have been asked, feel free at any point to go to my Questions category.  It’s nothing but questions posed to me by readers, and the answers.  Keep in mind while reading them however that some specific questions might no longer hold true with new patch releases.

For those who wish to contact me/ask questions by E-mail you can reach me at:

Skeleton.Jack@hotmail.com

As a note however, reaching me by comments on this site tends to elicit responses much more quickly.  Either by me or the community.  I can’t respond to every E-mail always in a timely fashion sadly.

Where are the specs!?!?

If you want some specs feel free to check out my post with the 3.2 specs:

3.2 Death Knight Specs:  PvE DPS and Tanking

SJ, why is this new (enter generic spec) spec better than a previous one?  Why should I be switching, and is the old one still viable?

Well viable is a questionable term to begin with.  Will an older spec be viable in an end game raiding environment?  Probably not.  Now, will it be viable in casual raiding?  Sure, why not!!  Any time you see a talent tree’s spec evolve into a different spec you have to realize that as talents are changed, and itemization increases in ilvl (item level), specs will change as well. 

But then again sometimes not.  Blood for example has stayed very static, with only minor changes with the development of DK’s.  Unholy on the other hand has had a progression through 3 different specs as your gear/patches progressed, while even offering a viable DW spec as well. 

If I do a “summary post” about multiple specs I’m not going to be going into details as to why these new specs are “it on a stick”.  Those kind of details are best reserved for spec specific posts.  Sometimes you just have to trust me until I can get around to a detailed analysis for each spec.  ;)

What speed weapons should I be using when DW’ing Frost or Unholy?

Technically speaking you always want to be wielding Slow weapons in both hands, preferably with speeds of 2.5 or 2.6 respectively.  Now as Unholy you can use a Slow MH weapon and a Fast OH weapon without a noticeable DPS decrease, but as Frost that is not an option.  Due to the mechanics of Strikes being based off of weapon damage, Slow always beats Fast for instant cast strikes.

Threat of Thassarian allows you to use both MH and OH weapons for Strikes (for Frost) so Frost has to use Slow/Slow for optimal DPS.  Unholy however lacks this talent, meaning it’s Strikes are all based off of the MH only.  While BCB will do slighly more damage with weapons of speed 2.5 and 2.6. the increase is so marginal that it doesn’t really matter.  So Slow/Fast is acceptable for Unholy DW.

But what if I have a better DPS weapon that’s Fast, and not Slow?

The dps jump would have to be massive in order to replace a “Strike” weapon.  Meaning MH or OH for Frost, or just the MH for Unholy.  If the dps jump is 20 DPS or less, then stick with the Slow weapon with lower DPS.  Yes, the weapon speed makes that much of a difference. 

If you’re getting into a 25+ DPS boost, then swapping is probably the way to go.  Honestly though, you should ignore fast weapons on principle and focus on Slow.

What spec is doing the most DPS now?

That question is not easily answered.  It might seem easy, but due to several factors it’s not.  WMO (my fav site for checking dps) doesn’t have a setting (that I can find anyways) to only show the top 20 from the last week.  They do it by “all time”.  On top of that, they have not added in top 20 lists for the Coliseum.

So what I did was pull up the top10 guilds (total raid wide dps) for the Beasts of Northrend.  9 of the 10 guilds had DK’s.  Here were the results:

  1. 2H Blood: 5653 DPS
  2. 2H Blood: 5622 DPS
  3. DW Frost: 5372 DPS
  4. 2H Unholy OB:  5359 DPS
  5. 2H Blood: 5249 DPS
  6. 2H Unholy OB:  5077 DPS
  7. 2H Blood: 5035 DPS
  8. 2H Blood: 4917 DPS
  9. 2H Unholy SS: 4773 DPS

Now this is not indicative of the true potential of DK DPS for 3.2 due to several factors.  DK’s in guilds who did crappier raid dps might very well have done a lot more personal DK DPS.  Also this was the first fight for some people, meaning they were not at 110% due to learning curve. 

On the flip side it at least indicates that 2H Blood, 2H OB Unholy, and DW Frost are all close to par at first glance.  Whether this stands the test of time has yet to be determined.

I swapped to this new spec, and now my DPS has totally tanked.  What gives?!?

First off, anytime you swap specs to something new expect your dps to drop dramatically.  No questions asked.  Be prepared to suck it.  Long and hard.  Just sayin’.  :D

Why does this happen?  Itemization, familiarity, learning curve, muscle memory, etc…  One of the biggest mistakes made is not regearing for a new spec.  If you had BISI for say Unholy, some of those BISI wouldn’t even rank in the top5 list for Blood spec. 

Each spec values different stats at varying levels.  If you have a lot of the stats that are good for one spec, that same gear just might do as well with another spec.  And lets not forget the learning curve. 

I don’t care how awesome you think you are, if you swap specs you won’t be as good with the “new shiny toy” as you were with the spec you’ve been playing for at least a month or two.

DPS is made by a contribution of multiple events:

  • Spec
  • Proper Gear
  • Experience/Practice
  • Proper Raid Buffs/Debuffs
  • Player Skill

If you don’t bring everything to the table, then you won’t get the DPS you could be doing.  Always remember to take in the big picture, or something will get left behind.

Is Frost DW a viable spec now?

If you’re still asking this then you didn’t read everything I’ve written so far.  GG.  A DK did 5372 DPS in the Coliseum already.  So yeah, it looks viable with an expected cap breaching 7k DPS fully buffed/debuffed with T9 BISI.

If I Heart Strike one target with diseases on it, and it hits an adjacent target with 0 diseases on it, will it do full damage to both targets?

No.  All Strikes get dmg multipliers based off of how many diseases you have on your target.  This damage is calculated when it hits the target.  So if you HS a target with 2 diseases, and then the “cleave” effect hits another target with 0 diseases, then you will do reduced dmg to that second target.

If I’m in lower ilvl gear (T7 and under), are these specs viable for me?

In a nutshell yes.  There might be more optimal specs for lower itemization (like Unholy), but basically any top end spec will work for you no problem.  The only time you need to consider making a wonky off-shoot spec is when raiding is not your primary time sink.

If you spend more time doing 5mans or PvP it might be time to consider swapping the specs around a little bit.  But outside of PvP, any raid viable spec will work for you in any PvE environment.

Where is your DC button in your UI?

If you go back to my 2H OB post, you’ll see I have 5 bars.  On the top right bar towards the far right end (4th from the right) is my DC button.  For those who don’t know I play WoW with a Belkin Nostromo 52TE, or a N52 TE. 

You can go read my post about the N52 TE and I HIGHLY recommend these things.  IT IS THE BOMB!!  And because of it, I don’t keep all of my “regular fire” buttons on my main action bar.  It works for me!  :)

Insert *dumb* random question involving a target dummy.  Yeah, I said dumb.  If you said “target dummy” then I’m saying DUMB!!  *grumble*

What is a Target Dummy good for?  Practicing your rotation, new mods, and checking procs.

What is a Target Dummy not good for?  EVERYTHING ELSE!!!  I mean it damnit.

People always want to talk about their dps on a target dummy.  Target dummies ruined WoW.  Well…not really.  But I’m tired of hearing about them.  Without all raid debuffs and raid buffs, no test results from a TD will ever be viable, correct, reliable, or worth mentioning.  It’s just a fact of life.  The quicker you accept that fact and move on, the better.

Now if you somehow get all raid buffs, get on a dummy with full health, and get enough people there to fully debuff it…  Well my hat will be off to you sir for suckering enough people to be your !@#$# boys.  Otherwise, ignore the TD excepting for testing mods, procs, and rotations.

Hey I tried Disease-less again, and it was viable!!

No, it wasn’t.  You just think it was.  The previous 3.1 buffs to the dmg multipliers from diseases was enough to kill disease-less specs.  But it still left 1 disease specs being viable.  So they then increased BS dmg from diseases, and they increased the dmg on the diseases themselves.

If you play a DK now, and don’t use two diseases, then you’re nerfing your DPS.

Hey I found/tried this spec that I found on EJ (or other random site) and got x/y/z results!!

There are a ton of possible specs out there guys.  And I’m sure that for some playstyles that they work.  And I fully encourage everyone to always play what is fun for them.  But when I list specs I tend to stick to the 2 best specs possible.  And no more.

Generally speaking I find that some of the posts on other sites tend to cave in to public demand and list a ton of variant builds.  While that may be “complete”, generally the message gets lost in translation.  I prefer to hand over the best, or two best specs possible, and then let you have at it.  :)

How are you doing so much damage with Death Coil in a 2H Unholy OB build?

  • Are you using a Sigil of the Vengeful Heart?
  • Are you using top end Unholy gear?  See BISI.
  • Did you spec correctly?
  • Are you in a 25 man will full raid buffs and debuffs?
  • Are you using the 2SR to your advantage, and working in HoW every 20 seconds?

Now in some fights DC dropped down to number 2 or 3 for dmg sources, but generally speaking it was high as hell (excepting the AoE fights like Thorim/Freya).

How did you do so much DPS on Hodir as Frost?

That is just a Frost fight due to all of the spell caster buffs.  In general, it’s a caster fight and Frost has a lot of stuff that benefits there.  Kind of like how Unholy decimates at Freya, Frost decimates at Hodir.

What about leveling builds?

I actually plan on getting back to these one I’m done with the 3.2 stuff.  That said, it’ll still probably be several weeks before that happens simply because I need to do detailed posts on specs still, and get BISI underway soon.

New BISI posts?!?!

Yes, new BISI posts!!  It’ll be another week minimum before this gets started (if not 2 weeks), but it will be coming much sooner this time.  Just nailing down some numbers and waiting to see how sims are playing out in practice before doing the final prep work.

MOAR QUESTIONS!!!!

I don’t want this post to get too long, but basically I plan on answering more questions.  I’ll have a second questions post up sometime late this evening, or tomorrow.

Feel free to post more questions on this post if you have any in general, or questions about things discussed here!!

-Suffer Well Brothers and Sisters.

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This entry was posted on Friday, August 7th, 2009 at 9:22 pm and is filed under Questions. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

26 comments so far

Zidàne
 1 

umm somehow someway with the frost spec i keep running into a 3 or four second time where all my RP is gone and all runes are on cool down ….. what should i do? is this suposed to happen? and im just worried if i change the rotation my dps will take a plunge

August 7th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Zidàne
 2 

the dw dps

August 7th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Tarragon
 3 

Thanks for answering my heart strike question! I love you!

August 7th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
frogi
 4 

You da man SJ<3

August 7th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
Ievil of Suramar
 5 

ok…. so anyone, that has played WoW, knows test dummys are… well, dumb!
what about a decent dps sim? (i think i have asked you like…. a few dozen times) so give it up SJ, i know you got one!!
hand it over big guy! ;op

August 8th, 2009 at 1:00 am
Odox
 6 

Great work here SJ… <3
I've managed to break 6.5k dps on patch with dw frost and it kept on going up an up… i stopped at 6.9k dps… if we had a warrior tank i would prob go over 7k dps. So should we expect nerfs incoming anytime soon?

August 8th, 2009 at 5:56 am
SA
 7 

OK SJ 2 things here I’d like to address.
1. wth is this “threat of Thassarian” DW ability U speak of, Is it a racial ability as I never heard nor seen of this ability on my Human dk. idk but I cant seem to find any mention within my talent tree or racial abilities?
2. My recount is showing malee miss %, whilst in uld/nax I usally within top 5 of overall dam done. However upon Closer inspect of recount I am getting a sometimes 10-14% malle miss rate. Is the DW hit/exp cap higher then wat is required on a 2H build. My only thought is that I am alil shy on exp & thats were this malee miss rate could be lacking? I DW slow/slow Uld weaps, I have 4 peice bonus from T7.5 with 1 T8.5. rest uld gear, running spec 0-54-17 build. working Ok but this malee miss is somewat concerning. As i assuming this miss % could be going towards improved dam? “any Suggestion” ?

August 8th, 2009 at 7:51 am
SA
 8 

OK “threat of thassarian” i see it overlooked it my bad. But hey any suggestion on the whole malee miss % thing? plz

August 8th, 2009 at 7:58 am
Pwnisher
 9 

@Ievil – There are a handful of DK dps sims out there from spreadsheets to small apps. Google “dk dps sim” or something similar to find the links. Most I located are outdated posts, but updates may be available if you dig deeper. Most of SJ’s data comes from spending quality time in the PTR, following by more quality time in-game. I believe sims of any flavor only reveal theoretical builds that may yield respective numbers in-game. I for one do not have time for them, and this is why SJ is my hero! -Regards

August 8th, 2009 at 8:33 am
tyronn
 10 

hey how is Armor penatration help Blood dks is that stat important?

August 8th, 2009 at 9:08 am
seanathon
 11 

I’m blood specced with full T8.5 (well t8 shoulders). I’ve been lacking a ARP trinket for what seems like an eternity of Naxx/Uld runs.

Would it be worth it to break the t8 for Clockwork Legplates for the extra arp?

I also have the Drape of Fuming Anger, but a Aged Winter Cloak (arp) in the bank.

Basically, my question is without having an arp trinket how valuable is arp vs str?

August 8th, 2009 at 9:56 am
seanathon
 12 

I apologize I meant to say I have 4 pieces of t8.5/8.

August 8th, 2009 at 9:57 am
Amsterdoomed
 13 

DW frost is a definite two thumbs up. With my gear i hit a nice 8k on XT hard mode.

thnx for the info. to bad I’m main tank spec on other spec or I’d test the 2 H blood spec (I was this before 3.2) ;)

August 8th, 2009 at 11:12 am
numbertu
 14 

Hey SJ, quick question. is DW viable while leveling?

August 8th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
james
 15 

just witing this little post as ive just finished uld 25 and decided to go dw frost as i thort i may of been a bit harsh about it and what ive said about it well anyway i got my hit+ to 12% and well it was ok but i have to say no were near as fun as uh and the dps is not as good neither about 400-700 of my normal altho i have betrayer for 2h uh anyway and well its not for me my question to u sj is have you tried it and if so what do you think personaly its not for me buy hay its all about wats most fun for you

August 8th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
RiceCake
 16 

I’m a big fan of the dummy as it provides a way, as you said, to check mods, rotations, and procs. While postings of dummy dps are oftentimes useless, they are good for one very important thing: talent comparison.

If you do more DPS with a different talent point on the dummy, what does this prove? Normally it proves nothing, for scaling differs in a raiding environment. For example, the amount that obliterate gains from raid buffs differ from the amount that scourge strike gains from raid buffs, for one is physical and one is magical, amongst other differences. But what if you -know- that obliterate will hit the same or harder than scourge strike with raid buffs due to outside sources (good ol’ EJ)? If, with that knowledge in mind, you do quite a significant higher amount of damage on the dummy with the obliterate spec as compared to the scourge strike spec under the exact circumstances, and no other talent points were changed except ones only concerned with the two attacks… well, you just made a valid comparison. You can then look at the damage done, and find out where the extra damage came from, besides from the possibly harder hitting obliterate. If obliterate hits like a wet noodle unbuffed, yet you still achieved higher damage with the obliterate spec… well, something interesting has happened right?

If you wish to compare talents that are widely different (such as a passive talent compared to a strike talent), you should really do it in a raid. However, if you have some knowledge as to what two very close or at least comparable talents will do to your attacks, the dummy isn’t actually such a bad source for comparison. The more you know of the talent points / specs and the equations that go with them, the more you can get from a straight unbuffed dps chart, for you can actually fill in the gaps.

August 9th, 2009 at 2:25 am
RiceCake
 17 

This is not to say, link your dummy dps. This is merely a suggestion to look deeper into the damage you’re pushing and its relationship with the corresponding talents.

Just as the DPS simulators are a great source of raid dps estimation, I find the dummy to be a great source of my napkin calculations. You can actually calculate every part of your raid DPS on paper if you wish, but the simulator does it for you. I could technically theorycraft everything if I have the spare time, but the dummy sure provides a great shortcut where I could then base my more complex, more reliable calculations on. Want to figure out how much damage DRW provides? You could do the math yourself, or you can whack the dummy for a few minutes and get a great estimation since it scales with your buffs.

Blizzard and the WoW community has provided you with many tools to get more out of your game. How much you get out of them depends on how much you think intelligently about them and how you balance out which sources to trust in which situations.

August 9th, 2009 at 3:33 am
Caedos
 18 

After doing quite a bit of dps testing in Naxx and Ulduar on the Frost DW specs, I found that white dmg was doing a surprisingly small % of my dmg. I’m at 289 Hit, and Expertise cap with 35% self-buffed crit, but Melee seems to fall far behind Oblit and Frost Strike.

That being the case, I wasn’t even getting close to a 1-1% Point per dmg on Necrosis on BcB, so I decided to modify my spec and rotation and came up with something interesting.

I’m now using a Frost DW spec featuring more into Blood, for Bladed Armor and Dark Conviction, and 3 in Frost for Virulence. My glyphs are HB, Oblit, and FS.

The dmg output is surprisingly high, and I usually run around 65-75% crit on Oblit and FS. The rotation ignores Plague Strike, and refreshes the disease through Howling Blast, like many Pre-3.1 2h Frost Specs.

I know you mentioned that “If you play a DK now, and don?t use two diseases, then you?re nerfing your DPS.” but I was wondering if you’d like to give this spec a shot and see how it scales, I find the rotation fairly easy and slightly OP, I’m getting consistent 5-6k on bosses, and 9-14k on Hodir.

Sorry for ranting, but I’d like to hear your opinion on it =)

August 9th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
=-/
 19 

What Build do you think is best? When you Posted for the 3.1 Builds you said that you thought Unholy seems like the best Raiding Build or somthing around those lines.

August 9th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
Felix
 20 

Hi, can you guys post lvling spec i just made a DK and was wondering which spec should i lvl with. Im lvl 58 today.thanks.

August 9th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
SA
 21 

Can Someone plz read The “SA” post about 5 posts up,On malee miss % upon a closer inspection of recount, prefferablly someone thats going to read the whole post & has Knowledge On Dw mech’s for DK. why the hell am I getting 10-14% mallee miss rate. yeh Hit capped, Exp is around 18 ’suggested’ by sj but could be better? Would just appreciate Know were & why I am expereincing this malee miss %. plz I’ll take any advice I can get.

August 10th, 2009 at 8:39 am
Knever
 22 

Hi SJ,

I am DW Frost spec doing heroics etc pulling btwn 4-5k… I am using a fast /slow combo (just b/c not two slows yet) If i have one slow and one fast would the slow be better in my OH or my MH????

Thanks!

August 10th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Raww
 23 

Jack, when do you plan on adding any of the new gear from 3.2 into the Best in Slot page? Appreciate the work. Thanks.

August 11th, 2009 at 9:26 am
Kevon
 24 

when will you be able to post the new pvp spec for Dks… ? thx for everything btw :)

August 11th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Yaly
 25 

Hi, there.

I am Glad you pulled out some Numbers for DW Frost, Blood and OB Unholy DK´s, but i dont think u meantioned that most of the DK´s have 4P t8,5 with a fairly strong Bonus for Blood DK and noone at this time has an 4P t9. (This and the New Sigil of Virulence will probably change some Numbers on Unholy in the Future)

I hope, I didn´t miss anything.

Have u done some Raid- testing for the new Sigil allready?

August 12th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
coolwind
 26 

hopefully I am not frustrating you with these ?noobs? questions. I did try reading throughout your site, but couldn?t really find a place where explained this in detail.
I have a problem understanding the rotation you have bellow for blood tanking spec:

Rotation: PS ? IT – HS ? HS – DS – RS/RP // DS – DS ? HS ? HS – RS/RP
Priority System: Diseases (BP + FF) > MaxRP-Dump > DS > BS > RS > DC.
Few of things I didn?t understand:

1- RS/RP ??? I know this means Runic Strike and Runic Power, but how do I do this in action?
2- MaxRP-Dump??? How do I do this in action?
3- Priority system and the rotation doesn?t seem to match. Do I do the priority system items first and then do the rotation or vice versa or when and how do I do them in action?

Thanks

August 17th, 2009 at 11:07 am

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