Jul

PTR 3.2 Dual Wield DK Specs

Posted by: Skeleton Jack in PTR, Specs

Heya guys!! So it’s time for an update as things have changed. Funny how things change so much on a Test realm eh (PTR)? Heh,

So I am revamping all of my spec info atm, and trying to break into PvP and Tank specs as well. I’d like to have about 10-14 specs that are 3.2 viable up and ready to go for Tuesday of next week. I’ve got a feeling 3.2 is going live soon. They’re not pushing boss tests much anymore…

So in the spirit of giving you guys toys, here is the preliminary DW info for Tuesday (barring future changes).

Dual Wield 3.2 Builds

The clear leader for 3.2 appears to be Frost DW with the new changes. However the Unholy DW build seems to be within a 5% range, leaving it a viable option. Unholy DW will suffer significantly however in any encounter that you cannot keep at least a 70% uptime on your ghoul.

DW Frost Oblit/Pest Build – 0/53/18

Rotations

IT – PS – BS - Pest – OB – RP // OB – OB – OB – RP (Set up rotation)

OB - BS - Pest – OB – RP // OB – OB – OB – RP (Future rotations once diseases are applied)

Priority System: Diseases (FF > BP) > OB > BS > FS. It is important to understand that Rune abilities always take priority over RP abilities. Always keeps the 2SR in mind however, as you will want to fire off FS/HB Rime procs between GCD’s when possible. Don’t just RP dump at the end of a rotation.

Howling Blast/Rime Procs: Attempt to use these with KM procs whenever possible due to HB having a lower crit % chance than FS. Do not push back a rotation however to do this. If you have spare GCD’s then it is ok to delay a Rime proc. Otherwise use KM on FS’s.

Note: This rotation/spec will not proc IIT due to Pest refreshing the diseases. If you need to be buffing the raid you can take a personal DPS loss (but a raid DPS increase) by ignoring Pest, and subbing in a new glyph. A basic rotation of IT – PS – BS - BS – OB – RP // OB – OB – OB – RP will work fine.

The secondary glyph choice is relatively unimportant, so you could leave it the same or take something like Howling Blast. It won’t impact your dps much by swapping this glyph honestly.

Runeforge: FC/RI

Weapon Speeds: Slow/Slow

Presence: Blood

DW Unholy Oblit Build – 0/18/53

Rotations

PS – IT – BS – BS – OB – RP // OB – OB – OB – RP

Priority System: Diseases (BP > FF) > OB > BS > DC. It is important to understand that Rune abilities always take priority over RP abilities. Always keeps the 2SR in mind however, as you will want to fire off DC’s between GCD’s when possible. Don’t just RP dump at the end of a rotation.

Runeforge: FC/FC

Weapon Speeds: Slow/Slow

Presence: Blood

-Suffer Well Brothers and Sisters.

Tags: PTR, Specs

This entry was posted on Wednesday, July 29th, 2009 at 4:33 am and is filed under PTR, Specs. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

34 comments so far

Noir Mort

I am fairly excited about the return of DW builds. I had a question however, while I do a lot of testing myself I alway like to reference your post and EJ posts for items and builds. Will you be updating BISI for DW-builds or will you be waiting until the actually patch comes out? (oh and BTW thank you for returning I have missed your blog, long time reader.)

July 29th, 2009 at 6:08 am

Moto

SJ how is DW spec’s stacking up against 2h spec’s? Better dps? Pretty even dps? Still below 2h dps?

Thanks

July 29th, 2009 at 6:16 am

Noir Mort

Also, as you said IT will not be cast so, could the points but into IIT be better used somewhere else?

July 29th, 2009 at 6:28 am

Skeleton Jack

The IIT points net you 5% haste you could not normally get. If you were to ignore those talent points you would be forced to pick up 2/2 Imp Frost Pres and 1/1 Deathchill for a fact (both of which do not increase your dps). Not sure if anything else…could maybe dump the rest in Subversion, I forget. But basically IIT is totally worth it, even when not providing the buff, because you are getting 5% haste out of the deal. Other alternative force a minimum of 3 points into non-dps talents anyways.

2H stuff is not finalized yet. Hope to have it done by Tuesday.

BISI will be complicated until at least 2 weeks minimum after 3.2 release at best. They will be up sooner than last time, but it will take a while to get that out. I do plan to incorportate DW BISI in the future.

July 29th, 2009 at 8:37 am

ODk

im curious why your useing IT PS then BS Pest…..you allready have your disease up so whats the pest for? if its for other npc in the area, wouldnt you want to use pest before BS to get that extra tick from your FF/BP on all the other npc? would you still use pest on single target? if so for what reason? thx… just tryin to make sense of the build……

also this brings up the old rotation of IT PS BS BS SS — i allways wondered why it wasnt IT PS SS BS BS (throwin the SS first to get those runes back earlier, not much of an increase but it would be one no?) the only reason i can see SS After BS being useful is if you casted Bone Shield or such before entering battle and have to wait on that rune to be ready to blow the last FU (SS) Attack

and theres allways the IT PS / PS IT thing, which i believe will be moot in 3.2, havin PS first in 3.1 with unholy gave ya the 5% boost to your first IT…

also im dying to see your top builds so far, or are you saying that dual wield is the new top build by posting mostly about dual wield? wondering if im gona do better with a couple of Slow/Slow 219 weapons or a 232 two hander and what spec ill end up for maximum performance….

July 29th, 2009 at 11:41 am

ODk

A Suggestion i have on glyphs is to go with Deaths Embrace over Horn of Winter, you should have plenty of time in your rotation even under blood presence to use horn of winter a couple of times every 2 mins, while in the mean time also pulling 10 runic out of it and giving you the ability to heal your ghoul for 1/2 the cost (Tho i havent done my research on the new ghoul heal/haste, if its a must have or not, i guess that could moot the point if you never need ghoul heals and then just give you an extra overlapping min incase you missed horn……tho i tend to have space for horn about every 2nd-3rd rotation….Beautiful runic

July 29th, 2009 at 11:49 am

doomchicken

thanks for posting this SJ, I have been looking forward to the DW specs…I am definetly going with Frost DW when the patch hits. I have Malice already, just need to get another uber slow 1H weapon and I am gtg.

July 29th, 2009 at 12:41 pm

Tarragon

Is there a viable dual wield blood spec? Cause dual wielding is fun and all, but I’m not about to give up heart strike for it.

July 29th, 2009 at 7:20 pm

Joe

One thing I have not seen addressed elsewhere is whether Blizzard intends DW to be viable for DK tanking. As far as I’m aware, there haven’t been any changes to address the expected attendant parry-haste issues. Am I wrong?

July 29th, 2009 at 10:17 pm

Troiiz

Just a thnakyou for your hard work Jack, its very much appreciated.

July 29th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

Skeleton Jack

ODK:
You are using Pest (with the glyph) to refresh the diseases. If you did not use Pest right then, by the time your BR’s came off of CD your diseases would have ticked off. You also mention using SS. You never use SS, not purchase the talent.

Tarragon:
You know your name is an herb right? Minus like one “r”? LOL
No solid Blood DW sorry. And HS would stink without the Frost talent ToT anyways as it’d only go off of the MH weapon.

Joe:
Tank weapons for 1H tend to all be fast. So you can’t get an awesome 1H anyways because you want Slow/Slow. In addition to that you cause more parries when DW, so you will give the bosses parry haste. I can’t see DW being viable for end game tanking except possibly as an OT where it’s less important.

July 30th, 2009 at 12:15 am

Kgo

SJ is right about Tanking. Also notice how Rune Strike is conveniently left off of ToT. Think how hard it would be to balance all the tanking trees around dk’s who take two tanking weapons to increase stats so they could alleviate need for defense gems etc. to increase stam vs. those who use traditional 2h dps weapons. It would in the end force Frost to be the Tank Spec for that alone.

I am curious though, I remember the changes to kill the 32/39 build with Necrosis only effecting the main hand and blood cake blade having a hidden 3 second cooldown, are those still there, and if so is not mimicking the current 17/51/3 with something similar to http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent#jfVZG0exAbczf0cuzAoc more viable? Or did they remove those limitations on Necrosis and BCB?

July 30th, 2009 at 1:32 am

Kgo

ODK, I know in the past, not sure now, if you did not have the HoW Glyph and another DK in your raid did, you could not cast HoW at all. I haven’t checked this in a while because being a tank this was simply something I couldn’t live without. I remember they tried to fix it one point but it still bugged and reverted it back. I am not sure on the current mechanic.

July 30th, 2009 at 1:40 am

Tarragon

Yes I know my name is an herb. I picked it because my first choice, Chives, was taken. And there are 2 R’s in it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarragon

July 30th, 2009 at 3:09 am

Knever

One question that really hasnt been answered (and maybe nobody knows or has tried it in a raid setting)… how does DW stack up against 2h dps (assuming your using the “best” 2h spec and the “best” DW spec)

Thanks

July 30th, 2009 at 8:07 am

Skeleton Jack

I’ve found my personal simulations don’t match up to recent findings on EJ, leaving me very confused for once actually. And I don’t have the proper gear to test everything out on PTR. I’m not really sure what is winning atm simply because I can’t find any data that agrees with my own research entirely. I think 3.2 Live is going to be the number 1 test for real results.

July 30th, 2009 at 8:26 am

Matt

It was to my understanding that there are no more procs to offhand weapon runeforging has that changed now

July 30th, 2009 at 9:03 am

Brandon

Congrats on the bumb from http://www.wow.com!
… yeah I’m stll around, keep up the good work SJ!

July 30th, 2009 at 10:08 am

Cháos

If you use glyph of disease you gank ur raids dps. Because you won’t use icy touch to refresh diseases, you won’t give your raid improved icy talons.

This applies to frost specs.

July 30th, 2009 at 11:27 am

Skeleton Jack

Chaos you win the “I can’t read an entire post” award!! Congrats!! Excerpt directly from the post itself:

“Note: This rotation/spec will not proc IIT due to Pest refreshing the diseases. If you need to be buffing the raid you can take a personal DPS loss (but a raid DPS increase) by ignoring Pest, and subbing in a new glyph. A basic rotation of IT – PS – BS – BS – OB – RP // OB – OB – OB – RP will work fine.”

July 30th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

Odessa

Just found this post, great job SJ.
Gave me alot to consider seeing as i was goin to go DW went 3.2 hits. i had a great multi target tanking spec goin with HB which i loved and was great for full AOE dpsing but i might be having to drop a few things for DW. thanks for the post

July 30th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

Lohengrim

Can anyone suggest Naxx 25 weapons to use for this? I currently have a pair of Widow’s Fury, but I wonder if those are too fast for a good Unholy DW build?

July 30th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

Bodhisattva

Sorry to be a blatant noob…but under you DW Frost Oblit / Pest build you have RP (Rime Proc) in the rotation…what the hell is a Rime Proc?
LOL
I know, forgive my noobishness.
Also, you suggest the Glyph of Frost Strike for use with this build…but you don’t use Frost Strike in the rotation. I am confused, again.

July 30th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

Skeleton Jack

RP = Runic Power, which means spend it (on Frost Strike). Also you should have seen in the Priority System that you should spend RP between GCD’s when possible.

Rime is now fixed – hover your icon over it for description. It is a Frost talent.

July 30th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

ODk

Wouldnt the diseases last until your next rotation…..ooooh, i see, its not casue of the disease runnin out before BS but before your next rotations chance at using pest again, cause IT/PS will last through both halves of a rotation talented, which your talent spec was…

What about the talent morbidity and glyph of Dark Death — going with your unholy blight and glyph of UB possibly? wouldnt these be good ways of makin huge use of your RP or is the increase in damage from dark death and morbidity just not worth the talent points?

July 31st, 2009 at 1:53 am

Latture

SJ is the man, and Elitist Jerks know what they’re talking about. If there was ever a blog to come too about DKs, this would be it. SJ and Elitist Jerks both agree on the specs above, so stick with what it says. Imo, the Pest build looks a lot more challenging to play in a raid environment. But i guess we’ll see. And wouldn’t it be kind of a pain to keep your ghoul up 70 percent of the time? Man Bonechewer isn’t worth the click.. I’m sticking with the Pest build.

August 1st, 2009 at 12:22 am

Blu

Just refferring to ur ur thread here.
The IIT points net you 5% haste you could not normally get. If you were to ignore those talent points you would be forced to pick up 2/2 Imp Frost Pres and 1/1 Deathchill for a fact (both of which do not increase your dps). Not sure if anything else?could maybe dump the rest in Subversion, I forget. But basically IIT is totally worth it, even when not providing the buff, because you are getting 5% haste out of the deal. Other alternative force a minimum of 3 points into non-dps talents anyways.
Keen as mustered to be going back to wat i loved DW spec. Can u tell me, if use using the GoD, will IIT proc on self? It just wont give the raid the haste buff? correct? As u state subbing GoBS will give personal dps loss , but increase raid haste. I curious if I am to stick with GoD will “I” still get the 5% IIT haste of does pest/GoD cancel the IIT talent out all together? “trying my darnist to understand my Dk mechs. with release of 3.2″

August 4th, 2009 at 9:17 am

Blu

Sj can u tell me if I am to stick with this DW frost build, by using GoD will I still get the IIT haste or does the Pest/GoD cancel this proc/talent at all together? i am understanding Ur saying personal dps loss, but raid haste increase! if leave GoD in will ‘I’ still get the IIT 5% haste on self? just not the raid correct?
“trying my darnist to understand my Dk mech’s with 3.2 release” Oh BTW thx for all the hard yards u put in. i know it helps me see things in a whole new perspective…But would appreciate some feedback on the whole IIT thing with GoD/pest?

August 4th, 2009 at 9:26 am

Blu

This is the thread i am refferring to
Note: This rotation/spec will not proc IIT due to Pest refreshing the diseases. If you need to be buffing the raid you can take a personal DPS loss (but a raid DPS increase) by ignoring Pest, and subbing in a new glyph. A basic rotation of IT ? PS ? BS – BS ? OB ? RP // OB ? OB ? OB ? RP will work fine.
So U state ‘If” u need to be bufing the raid! how about the self buff/proc of IIT, will it still become a self IIT proc or is it canceal out all together with GoD/Pest?
Long time Dw-Fan “well” b4 3.1 nerfs anyway…

August 4th, 2009 at 9:33 am

Justin

Just Wondering wat Gems i should be gemming for wit the Frost DW Spec… thnx

August 10th, 2009 at 1:02 am

Vetias

So why is it that DK tanks are often rejected by other people ? is it cause of the low defence that got nerfed in 3.2?

September 23rd, 2009 at 6:18 am

Rotor

uhm, call me a doof, but wat does RP stand for? i the place where u “translates” wat it all mean, but didnt find RP anywhere! im guessing it stands for Repeat or Repress or something, caus i cnt seem to find an ability dat starts with RP…

November 19th, 2009 at 11:50 am

Is this guide still working well right now on 3.3.2?

February 26th, 2010 at 8:34 am

Turgrim

I was just wondering why you are saying FC and FC on both weapons, i dont believe they stack so wouldnt a runeforge like RI or cinder work better?

February 28th, 2010 at 1:07 am

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Skeleton Jack

PTR 3.2 Dual Wield DK Specs

Dual Wield 3.2 Builds

DW Frost Oblit/Pest Build – 0/53/18

DW Unholy Oblit Build – 0/18/53

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