Heya guys!!  For a full write up on the new Death Knight Q&A by Ghostcrawler, please click here for the official WoW forums link.  I will only be copying a few particular quotes here, but feel free to refer back to the original post by GC for complete details.

I jest again, but my point is that we introduced a new class to a game that didn’t really have a niche that needed to be filled.

Blizzard lead their players to believe that the major reason that Death Knights were chosen for the new Hero class was specifically because the expansion was spun around Arthas himself, the main character of Warcraft 3.  Had they taken the expansion in a another direction it is entirely likely this Death Knight blog would not even be here, as things would have unfolded differently.

But regardless, the simple truth in the revelation becomes quite clear.  WoW didn’t need a new class, Hero or otherwise, because every possible role in the game was adequately covered.  And because of that, Death Knights will never truly feel needed.  And it seems obvious with Blizzard’s new game design that they intend for that to stay static.

We’ve asked ourselves several times if the death knight is overly complicated — perhaps you could accomplish 90% of the design with a 3 rune system instead of a 6 rune system — but we aren?t changing it to that large a degree soon.

Just be aware that when the big bad blues mention crap like this, that it’s something they are considering doing in the future.  Heads up is all.

In terms of 3.2, we want to chill out the death knight AE damage and defensive cooldowns a little. It’s fine for a melee class to have strong area-effect, but they shouldn’t be so much better than warriors, rogues, and Enhancement shamans.

This is where things break down with Blizzard sometimes.  They forget that a “Hero class” really can break the mold, and it’s ok to tell the players “tough, deal with it” from time to time.  Having a hero class, in and of itself, that can break the mold by doing more AoE damage than a traditional melee role is not bad.  It’s a “hero class”, things are supposed to be shaken up some. 

However the design team is taking the tunnel vision approach and soothing the bruised egos of other players by making DK’s fit more into the preconceived notions of melee class balance.  While it’s a fundamently design flaw on their part to cave in (imo), it’s something we’ll have to get used to it seems.

What we are going to do with dual-wield in 3.2 is just provide the Frost tree with the talents necessary to prop-up dual wielding, including a new talent that lets Frost Strike, Death Strike, Obliterate etc. hit with both weapons.

Well, Blizzard is finally getting around to supporting the Dual Wield die hards in the DK community.  It’s about time…  Short of some major catastrophy or mythic revelation on Blizzard’s part, DW’ing DK’s will now be pigeonholed into Frost specs.  While it’s probably a good thing from a balance/design stand point, the only upcoming fear is that DW’ing will entirely replace 2H Frost specs.

I want to reiterate though that our vision hasn’t changed — we still want death knights to be able to tank every encounter.

DK tanks have been ridiculously OP for the entirety of LK guys.  Sorry, but it’s true.  In cast off gear, I was 2% away from the armor damage reduction cap (75% cap).  And I still had multiple CD’s available, etc.  DK’s needed some nerfs when it comes to tanking.  The only fear now is whether or not the nerfs will be too heavy handed. 

It’s obvious that Blizzard desperately wants as many viable tank classes as possible, though finding that happy middle ground is far more difficult to accomplish than imagine.  Where we will land when 3.2 launches is still a scary prospect.

It is a problem that, say, Blood wants armor penetration and Unholy does not. But our answer to that problem is going to be to make all specs regard the stats more similarly, not to provide lots of different armor choices.

Well, this is a bad bad bad thing honestly.  More and more, each and every DK spec becomes a carbon copy of the next.  Gargoyle and DRW becoming the same, Unholy losing it’s AoE advanatge, and who knows what else.  Part of the epic flavor of DK’s is that each spec plays totally differently. 

With this new promise you have to ask yourself if the class will lose some of it’s core flavor if homogenized much more.  I think this path is a catastrophic mistake, but as it saves Blizzard both “time and money” I can’t see any way to avoid it sadly.

One particular spell that was brought up a lot is Mind Freeze and the “delays” in it taking effect on the target which often causes the interrupt to appear on a combat log but not actually stop the spell.  We have never been able to duplicate the situation that the players describe, that sometimes it has a delay that other interrupts do not.

This has been an ongoing problem since day 1.  Not sure if you guys have experienced it like I have (in both PvE and PvP), but it’s a massively annoying problem.  Looks like there is no upcoming fix to this issue.

Do we have plans to change any of the death knight’s self-healing abilities?  The healing is one of the core mechanics of the class, and one of the things that helps them feel distinct from warriors.

Yay!!  Honestly, after so much rigamarole basically talking about how they intend to ner…uhm…”balance” the class it’s nice to hear something on the upswing.  No more healing nerfs for Death Strike, woot!!

We have a long-term plan to add the ghoul voices back. We pulled them because they were using the vendor voices, which sounded weird when your ghoul would ask you to buy or trade. We just need to get some audio made without the vendor text. It’s in the plan, but not super high priority.

Who in the hell was complaining about their ghouls talking?  I mean seriously, it made more people laugh than cry.  I mean…  Damnit, give Bonechewer his voice back already!!  *HUFF*  Jerks!!

Recap

So, that’s basically the gist of the Q&A with some SJ translations in there for those who were not able to read between the lines.  The core concept of DK’s seems to be changing honestly.  Blizzard is afraid of getting any more flak from players because a “Hero Class” is potentially more powerful than a base class.  Whether that be by versatility, breaking the mold on potential, or you name it.

While DK’s are an OP class, there are many other OP classes as well.  Anyone else got multiple horror stories about being stun locked to death by a rogue?  Or seen the crazy HoT heals from a druid in a raid?  Or been non stop locked down by a druid in PvP?  Or…well you get the point.

Expect to see DK’s become more of a baseline tank, lose any special AoE tricks, watch damage leak from your primary strikes and bleed into Blood Strike, and become more homogenized.  It’s not the death of DK’s by any stretch.  Just we’re losing some of that “epic” feel is all.

-Suffer Well Brothers and Sisters.

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22 comments so far

Krashhnak
 1 

I love my Death Knight. But Blizzard is really making me wish I had stuck to my Shaman.

June 25th, 2009 at 11:04 pm
DeathMech
 2 

I would just like to say, BULL S@#T !!!!!!!

WE ARE A HERO CLASS!!!!! If they want us to be less BadA$$ then they should have made us a standard class. I played a Rouge for the longest time and new I was OP, just stun lock them to death, but come on just cause people are whinning doesn’t mean we should suffer. I don’t want to loose my AoE Badness.

:(

June 26th, 2009 at 7:10 am
DeathMech
 3 

So I just read thru the whole post of the WOW Forums and it makes me feel cold and sad inside. Not that dark angry cold of a deathknight but that impending doom kind that a bug gets before you stomp it’s lights out.

Bug = Deathknights Foot = patch 3.2

June 26th, 2009 at 9:08 am
Caswallawn
 4 

I am glad I am not the only one with rogue issues. Druids I can take care of most of the time but rogues, 99% of the time I can’t get a hit in edgewise and die faster than a priest with no manna. I think blizz should look more into the rogue being OP than the DK’s. I know we are OP but I do not think we have anything on Rogues IMO.

June 26th, 2009 at 9:18 am
JSkaven
 5 

I, for one, love the “over complicated” aspect of the Death Knight. There is nothing that I love more than to join a 25 man pug and school the other DK’s in their 25 man gear with my 10 man gear. Then again, my server does tend to be rather “special needs”, so that point is probably quite moot…

AOE damage: This is something I’m not so concerned about. When it comes down to it, boss fights are all about single target DPS. What I don’t like is the change to UB, because that effectively simplifies the Unholy DK’s rotations. I hate simplification of rotations, because I do not want to become what has happened to the ret paladin’s rotations. Sure it’s damage is great, but cheif complaint I hear from them is that the rotations have become boring.

The tanking cool downs: This worries me, personally, but I am currently riding that edge. While I do acknowledge that DK’s are currently OP as tanks, I think these nerfs are a bit too much, seeing as when you take all the tank nerfs at once, I now worry about my survivability as an Ulduar 10 tank.

Armor Penetration!!!: I’ve mentioned this under the BISI Shoulder comments. In Ulduar 10, the vast majority, barring all but one tier piece, of DPS plate has this stat on it. The only way I can see this stat being good for Unholy DK’s is if the ArP value can alleviate partial resists on our spell damage. Other than that, they give us the same tag line, basically saying “Oh, we don’t to make a gear that is only good for one spec of one class!” Meanwhile, our raid is swimming in Spell damage plate. If ArP is not going to give us any meaningful assistance, the Ulduar loot table is going to command me to respec Blood. I spec I do not particularly enjoy.

June 26th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Zothmog
 6 

SJ, if you want Blizzard to listen to what you’re saying you shouldn’t make “but they’re a Hero class” a part of your argument. They have already come out and stated plainly that ALL “Hero class” means to them is that the class starts at Level 55 with blue gear. So stop insinuating it means anything otherwise if you want them to take you seriously.

Otherwise I completely agree with you.

June 26th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Syralis
 7 

Why create a “Hero Class” if your going to nerf into the ground because people cry about it? The cry babies need to grow a set and move on. A Hero Class should be just that, nothing more, and nothing less. If they keep nerfing what’s special about DK’s then not only will I stop playing a DK, I’ll stop playing the game entirely. C’mon Blizz give us a break already and leave well enough alone.

June 26th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Yati
 8 

I’d be much rather to here that Blizzard denounces DK’s as a hero class.. To much Fuss and too much whining goes over the Dk class. Yes, In my experience, the DK class requires more skill if you want to be good.. But, its just aggravating. Just cuz DK’s are over powered to a degree its not because the WOW gods favor them.. its just in the name.. Hero class.. its always easier for most to complain complain complain.. rather then deal with it, and use it towards your advantage.

June 26th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
 9 

I play a warrior and personally I can’t see a problem with DK’s having good AoE as a melee class. I say LET them deal with the adds and I’ll stick to what I’ve always done … Tunnel vision single target dps.

And warriors CAN AoE dps (if briefly) In a pinch I can for the period of 6 secconds pull out between 8-10k dps in an AoE situation and add minor AoE after that.

Also don’t get me started on the damage that rouges can so through FoK spam.

So I say let them keep their AoE dps, it if anything, added more utility to our raid group.

June 26th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
 10 

I also loved the “over complicated” aspect of the DK. I always figured what made it a “hero” class was that it took more skill to get down, not necessarily that it was stronger. I really do hope it stays unique though.

June 27th, 2009 at 4:50 am
JSkaven
 11 

I’d agree with you on that. The complexity of the class, and wide variety of operation of the specs is what makes this class a “Hero Class.”

Frankly, I fear that there are too many that honestly believe that the term “Hero Class” means that we are supposed to be overpowered, and that is just fine. Never for a minute would I believe that is reasonable.

Those who believe that, I’d unabashedly call the Deathtards.

June 27th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
 12 

Hero class does not equate to allowing OP, and never should. However I’m not of the opinion that DKs should be nurfed just because they do not fit a more traditional way of thinking. For teh record – I play a DK as my main. I saw the nurf coming, and expect it to get slight worse before they adjust back the other way.

June 28th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
frogi
 13 

DKs are the new Rogues in plate.

I’d also like to point out that in the Q&A Ghostcrawler said this:
“Death knights are the only current Hero class, which means they are supposed to be the best class in the game.”
… Yeah hokay, GC.

June 29th, 2009 at 4:12 am
Atsuki
 14 

Single target UH is ACTUALLY BUFFED…tbh i don’t see any nerf, at all; Prolly only on tanking and pvp aspects, but dpswise they changed us not nerfed us.

June 29th, 2009 at 4:23 am
JSkaven
 15 

“Death knights are the only current Hero class, which means they are supposed to be the best class in the game.

I jest again…”

I see people referring to the top comment entirely to often, in a manner suggesting that GC was being serious. It does us no favor if people believe he was being anything other than facetious with the above comment.

Honestly, GC really stepped in it this time, just trying to be funny. But be realistic, folks. There cannot be a “best class in game” if WoW is to survive. It should be in the eye of the beholder, as a matter of opinion.

June 29th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Dredknott
 16 

Blizz is slowly ripping the soul of DK’s out, urinating on it, wiping it off and trying to put it back in. Remember how fresh it felt to switch from blood to unholy spec and it just changed the way you played, well that time is dead for now and I am praying they do not completely F’up DW:[

June 30th, 2009 at 9:20 am
Plazmatic
 17 

Since starting my DK, I always found it a bit odd that all 3 trees could be specc’d to either dps or tank. While I can appreciate that players want to customize their own playstyle around 3 trees that can each handle every capability of the class…it seems to be creating alot of confusion with the devs. This is only my opinion, but I think the class would be better off if it were able to spec to fill another role in pve , perhaps even a secondary healing role kind of like Disciples of Khaine in Warhammer Online. Just my opinion, but it would put our versatility just under Druids and perhaps would give the devs a clearer idea as what to do with the class.

June 30th, 2009 at 10:56 am
J Skaven
 18 

Read patch notes today. Any mention of SS has been removed, and BS buff has been reduced to 25%, down from 50%. The new UB is 20% of DC damage, down from 30%.

Things are changing rapidly for the Unholy changes.

June 30th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Deathwasp
 19 

I havent seen the patch notes, but as one who solo’s on a pve server, I find these changes disturbing. I only pvp when some fool runs by with pvp flag turned on. I have lost as much as I won, so I wouldn’t say we were that op.
Yesterday I was leveling my grand daughter’s DK (from 73 to 77, tyvm) and some lvl 71 gnome dk wanted to fight. lol, I fell to the floor laffing. Well, SJ, I’ll be waiting to see what you recommend for the talents. If Ihave to go blood, I will, but I sure love being unholy.

June 30th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
 20 

Unholy is far too weak when compared to Blood to win the “ST” (single target) dps game. With a massive reduction on their AoE capacity, more and more DK’s will lean into the Blood build. Blood has the best ST dps, solid cleaves, and the best self healing around making it amazing for learning new content etc. Frost is subpar as is in 3.1, and Unholy is losing it’s one edge over Blood. I’m not impressed still.

June 30th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Deathwasp
 21 

Thanks Micky. What really gets me is the gold that I spent to get my talents/spells from the trainer and the amount I paid for the glymphs (sic, possibly). If Blizz was truly good, they would give each class they screwed over not only free talent respec’s but 2000 gold to pay for everything one has to relearn. But this is not a perfect world and one still has to buy a waffle one at a time. Hmmm, waffles….

June 30th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Mickey
 22 

Calling all DK’s to boycott patch 3.2 …

Don’t play your DK’s

If you play your DK’s do not tank for any instances, heroics or raids. Do not DPS for any instances, heroics, or raids. This continuous nerfing of the DK has to stop.

Balance is required of course in any game but these changes are over the top and just plain outrageous. I have been driven now from my raid group due to these changes as I will no longer be a viable tank, I will no longer have viable DPS.

Thank you blizz,

I say good day to you.

July 8th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

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  1. The Last Frontier [Podcast] « Grey Hats    Jul 01 2009 / 12am:

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