23
Dec

Hit and Expertise Revisited

   Posted by: Skeleton Jack   in Best in Slot Items

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Heya guys!!  Deja vu e tu?!?!?  No this isn’t the same post as before if you previously read my post on Hit and Expertise.  Some perceptions, numbers, and other doodads have changed.

Basically it’s about gear priority and the unmentioned hit cap change.  Also I figure for my newer readers who missed the old post, this will be useful as well.  Lastly, this touches on what I am preparing for to finish my Best in Slot posts.

 

Hit Caps

Melee Hit

Versus a Raid Boss your special attacks (Read: yellow damaging attacks) all have a 8% chance to miss.  This is for DW (dual wield) and 2H (two handers) DK’s.

  • 32.79 Hit Rating is equal to 1% Melee Hit
  • 262.32 Hit Rating is equal to 8% Melee Hit (this is the Melee Hit cap)
  • DW imposes a hit penalty, requiring 23.6% Melee Hit to reach the Melee Hit cap with white attacks
  • DW still only has a 8% Melee Hit cap for special attacks

Spell Hit

  • 26.23 Hit Rating is equal to 1% Spell Hit
  • 445.91 Hit Rating is equal to 17% Spell Hit (this is the Spell Hit cap)
  • Improved Faerie Fire (Balance Druid debuff) or Misery (Shadow Priest debuff) increases your spell hit by 3%, or 78.69 Hit Rating.
  • Virulence + Misery = 6% spell hit, or 157.38 Hit Rating

So what are the automatic bonuses to Hit for your character?

In a typical raid environment with Virulence, Heroic Presence, and the afore mentioned raid debuffs, you will only need 288.53 Hit Rating to Spell Hit cap.

So what abilities count as Spells??

  • Blood Boil
  • Blood Plague (cannot miss)
  • Corpse Explosion
  • Death and Decay
  • Death Coil
  • Icy Touch
  • Frost Fever (cannot miss)
  • Howling Blast
  • Pestilence
  • Strangulate
  • Unholy Blight

 

OK, so how do I Expertise cap?

“Why, it’s elementary Watson!”

  • 1 Expertise Skill reduces the chance a target will dodge/parry your attacks by 0.25%
  • 8.2 Expertise Rating is equal to 1 Expertise Skill
  • 4 Expertise Skill reduces the chance a target will dodge/parry your attacks by 1%
  • 32.79 Expertise Rating is equal 4 Expertise Skill
  • 26 Expertise Skill is the Expertise Cap

So what are the automatic bonuses to Expertise for your character?

Expertise needed to cap:

  • Blood: 20 skill (164 rating)
  • Frost: 21 skill (172.2 rating)
  • Unholy: 21 skill (172.2 rating)

Just keep in mind that the “Expertise needed to cap” does not include racial bonuses.

While hitting the 8% melee hit cap is a mandatory priority, you should not be passing up good armor or stats in order to reach the expertise cap.  Strength, for example, is still worth more than expertise is.  I hope this helped guys!! :)

-Suffer Well Brothers and Sisters.

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This entry was posted on Tuesday, December 23rd, 2008 at 1:51 am and is filed under Best in Slot Items. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

90 comments so far

Iampuff
 1 

Those 20 hours did you good. :)

December 23rd, 2008 at 2:43 am
Sweet Cheeks
 2 

How come you have hit twice in each line??

December 23rd, 2008 at 3:38 am
Zawulon
 3 

Hi man, this is what i got from wowwiki.com:
A Death Knight’s hit cap is 9%, this with two-handed weapons at level 80 is 295.11.

So who is right?
Thanks for tisps since level 55 :)

December 23rd, 2008 at 3:41 am
Skeleton Jack
 4 

Iampuff
Heh, it did!! :D I’ve got to nail down some more facts first, but once I do I should within a week of that date have all Best in Slot posts done. I’ve already got the post format pre-done. I’ve just got to verify some numbers and do some personal testing to verify other research I’ve found.

Sweet Cheeks
I’m hoping that’s just a bad pun on your part. :P

Zaulon
9% has been the cap forever. Recent studies by hunters of all people (which they were one of the most likely to notice actually due to their mechanics) showed the cap had changed. Originally thought to be a bug, there has been no post by Blizzard stating it is a bug or intended to be reverted. They are just out of date is all.

December 23rd, 2008 at 4:30 am
Zyzyn
 5 

What about pvp hit cap? I have been operating under the assumption that it is 5% – though I have no idea where I got that.

December 23rd, 2008 at 10:06 am
Elistan
 6 

Why the big push for expertise rating, it only gets rid of dodges, and if your a good dps’er you should be behind the boss to begin with, in which case the boss can’t dodge. right??

December 23rd, 2008 at 10:53 am
Crisilex
 7 

Zyzyn – PvP hit cap is 5% for DK’s according to both Elitist Jerks and Arena Junkies.

December 23rd, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Soulless, Hakkar
 8 

Hey SJ, just wanted to thank you for great amount if useful information. Keep up the good work, but don’t forget about /rl. Again thanks a mill.

December 23rd, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Dethwulf
 9 

/gratz on 100k hits
/thanks for the great info

December 23rd, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Skeleton Jack
 10 

If you miss an attack, or it is dodged, then it throws off your entire rotation for DPS. While Unholy can be more forgiving with rotations (has a little bit more wiggle room), even then you can have some serious problems with hitting 100 RP cap, too many Runes off of CD, etc… All because a boss dodged your attack twice in a row, or you missed, etc…

Only players cannot dodge attacks from behind them. NPC’s still can. They are only unable to parry attacks from behind them.

It’s not rated soley based upon how much dps the expertise grants in and of itself, but also a measure of how much potential dps is not lost because a string of dodges/misses doesn’t back your rotation up, or in lay man’s terms:

“Expertise cap and Hit cap mean you can do a perfect rotation always without ever losing dps.” That quote is from me btw, heh! :D

December 23rd, 2008 at 3:55 pm
manto
 11 

If not capped…should we use Expertise / Hit gems instead of Strength gems?

December 24th, 2008 at 7:44 am
Sylvanahis
 12 

?Expertise cap and Hit cap mean you can do a perfect rotation always without ever losing dps.?

Couldnt have put it more clearly!!!

December 24th, 2008 at 7:58 am
Skeleton Jack
 13 

Yes Manto, however I’m not sure I will be regemming myself. I will gem that way with upgrades as needed however.

December 24th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Deathbreeze
 14 

I am at 295 hit and i was missing scourge strikes wtf is goin on

December 29th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Kharkuss
 15 

I believe that even when you are hit capped, you’ll always have a slight chance (<1%) of missing anyway. Please correct me if I’m wrong :)

January 3rd, 2009 at 10:56 am
Skeleton Jack
 16 

The 1% unattainable hit was removed with LK. Hence why Spell Hit cap is no longer 16%, and now 17%.

January 3rd, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Despayr
 17 

@Deathbreeze:

Pretty sure, even though it’s not listed in the guide, that Scourge Strike actually relies on Spell Hit. At least, that’s how it looks when I look at Recount’s information. I would never miss with Blood Strike or Plague Strike, but Icy Touch and Scourge Strike would have similar miss percentages.

January 5th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
DKhotstuff
 18 

According to what I read on EJ, DK specials hit cap is 9% or 295.11 hit to never miss with specials. That is what I am shooting for, anyway. If I still miss with that then I will keep adding hit until I find I don’t miss in 25 mans.

January 10th, 2009 at 3:14 am
Skeleton Jack
 19 

According to EJ, WoW forums, and many many many others it’s 8%. Whatever you found is either wrong or outdated.

EIGHT PERCENT. Not 9.

January 10th, 2009 at 5:24 am
BloodyN
 20 

OK. So I’m still a little confused here on spell hit cap. I can reach the melee hit cap really easy (262.32 or 8%) and am fairly certain I can reach the expertise cap pretty easy as well (172 rating or 21 pts.) and then just stack strength/crit./AP from there…

BUT, for my sake I want to make sure the following is correct:

“The melee and spell hit cap will both be reflected in the ALL ENCOMPASING hit rating under both the melee and spell tabs on a character sheet. In order to not miss with spells my hit rating needs to be 445.91 (183.59 pts. ON TOP OF the melee hit cap) which will go down with points in Virulence, Draenei’s Heroic Presence or if a Balance Druid/Spriest are present.”

So, if no buffs/debuffs are present and I have 2 points in Virulence my hit rating essentially should be 393.45 to not miss with spells or melee attacks?

Also, you mention numerous times above about having 3/3 Virulence but the link I followed for your Unholy build on the site (17/0/54) only has 2 points in it – am i not getting the right build or something (I’m looking for max dps w/ 2H)?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Anvilmar&n=Bloodynails

I’d also love it if there was a printable version of your best-in-slot items on a spreadsheet or something, but realize you do have a life.

January 13th, 2009 at 10:12 am
Beta
 21 

Found this comment on gnomedk.com

Dual Wielding Death Knights: Want 164 hit rating for main hand/specials hit cap (assuming Nerves of Cold Steel). Anything past that only helps off hand and should not be stacked at the cost of other vital stats (mainly strength and crit).

Is this agreed upon? Should DW DK get 164 hit then stack expertise and strength? How does this affect BCB and Nec?

January 14th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Skeleton Jack
 22 

262.32 Hit Rating is equal to 8% Melee Hit (this is the Melee Hit cap). That 164 number is total BS. If you do not have at least that, then you’re losing a ton of dps. Past that, you can refer to the priority listing for Spell Hit for each major spec. Any hit you gain past 262 will increase your spell hit, and both your MH/OH white hits if you are DW. If you are using a 2H any hit past 262 will only increase your spell hit.

January 14th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Beta
 23 

Thanks, lots of mis-information out there…

January 14th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Beta
 24 

OK, not to be a total tool here but if http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=50138 gives 3% +hit doesn’t that mean the new hit cap is 164 hit rating?

I don’t mean to be thick…I just am.

January 14th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Skeleton Jack
 25 

I apologize, the fact that you list 164 rating made me assume that you were not using the 3% from Nerves of Cold Steel. Why? I don’t ever ever *ever* pay attention to hit rating numbers for myself. I go out of my way to list rating numbers for you guys however, because most people prefer to use them. I just pay attention to the % myself.

32.79 Hit Rating is equal to 1% Melee Hit.
262.32 Hit Rating is equal to 8% Melee Hit (this is the Melee Hit cap).

So yes, 163.95 hit rating gets you to the melee hit cap. However for a DW spec Hit Rating holds more value than it does for any other spec.

Every missed spell (read Howling Blast, Death Coil, and Icy Touch) means your rotations get thrown off. Also you pull much more dps from your white attacks (and BCB/Necro) with them.

Frost weights Spell Hit in priority at Str > Crit > Spell Hit. DW pulls even more out of hit after melee hit cap however. It would probably fall in just after Strength for DW. Result?

Hit is still immensely valuable to a DW spec until you reach the Spell Hit cap.

My bad on reading what you wrote too quickly and making that mistake, but you still want Hit past the melee hit cap.

January 14th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Patria
 26 

I started life as Blood, I liked the big crits but in raids i was pretty much tied with our DK tanks :(

I switched to your DW build (31/40) and i saw about 1k improvement. I’ve regemmed and such for hit and expertise. My expertise is low, i can get about 7 total, but, i have 368 hit. Should i lose some of that hit for expertise, or should i focus on Str/Crit?
I dont notice alot of dodges or parries, but flippin glancing and misses total about 30% of my melee.
Here’s my gear:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Silver+Hand&n=Patria

I have a couple pieces that I can switch out, but I usually raid with 368 hit and 7 expertise. Buffed I have around 3k AP and about 25% crit (melee).

Should i use diff gems? Should i be looking for Str/Crit?

Help me SJ, you’re my only hope!

January 15th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Wyrmm
 27 

I’m sort of a beginning DW DK and I have Nerves of cold steel and 170 hit rating. If I’m reading this correctly, that is max hit rating for 2h wep. However, DW has a 23.6 percent max right? Well then, what do you suggest is the best amount of hit rating I should get without nerfing other things like strength and crit rating? I know your guide has hit rating as most important but i wanna have good strength and lots of crits too.

January 16th, 2009 at 9:16 am
Skeleton Jack
 28 

If you look at the priority list for each spec, the gems with the relevant stats in that priority would be how you wish to gem.

As far as DW hit if you took the time to read all of the comments you would have seen:
“Frost weights Spell Hit in priority at Str > Crit > Spell Hit. DW pulls even more out of hit after melee hit cap however. It would probably fall in just after Strength for DW. Result?
Hit is still immensely valuable to a DW spec until you reach the Spell Hit cap.” :P

January 17th, 2009 at 5:51 am
Moulgar
 29 

Hello, i got dual wield specc and i got “Expertise 7 / 7 ” and Expertise rating is 33 (+4 expertise)
does that means I’m capped if it is “26 Expertise Skill is the Expertise Cap” or do i have to have 26 / 26 expertise (if you do not hoover the numbers) ? and my Ap is kind of low 2531 and 428 hit do you think i should put expertise gem all over or ?

January 18th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Moulgar
 30 

I demand a answer!.

January 19th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Kharkuss
 31 

Moulgar, chill! It’s 26 expertise skill, not rating. You need 214 expertise rating to cap, before talents. And please read the whole article before you post, people… SJ isn’t posting this information here so you can skip over it and demand he help you each on an individual basis.

January 21st, 2009 at 7:30 am
J Skaven
 32 

Given all this information, what exactly is the spell hit cap, given you play on the faction that is not fortunate enough to have the draenai racial?

With (almost exactly) 295.11 hit raiting, I’m obviously over the melee cap, if melee hit does indeed cap at 8%. How much further do I need to go get spell hit capped? Or, is it not even worth it, and I should start regemming now?

January 23rd, 2009 at 2:06 pm
J Skaven
 33 

Okay, nevermind. I managed to misread (or rather, I read out of order). The number I want is apparently 367.22 ( independent spell hit number for those without the Misery debuff, or missing the Draenai raid buff)

So ,what with that figured out, and according to prioritizing, I *should* be regemming for strength at this point, seeing as I’m holy.

Hooray for having internet conversations with oneself.

January 23rd, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Piranha
 34 

Sorry if I missed anything, but can anyone confirm if virulence and nerves of cold steel are hidden stat boosts? The reason I ask is that I don’t see the extra 3% boosts in my character screen. I have 402 hit points from gear and it is showing 12.26% (melee) and 15.32% (spell). Would it actually be 15.26% and 18.32%? Thanks

January 27th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
lithium
 35 

Where did you get your APE values? According to Elitist Jerks, expertise is only worth 1.7 while STR is worth 2.5, yet you prioritize expertise over str. Who is the right one?

http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t36638-death_knight_pve_dps/p2/

January 29th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
lithium
 36 

Sorry one more question if you will, if I’m already melee hit capped would 44 attack power be better than 20 hit rating? Thanks a lot.

January 30th, 2009 at 12:02 am
Xarddin
 37 

lithium if you are HIT capped 20 hit rating gives you NOTHING, 44 attack power give you something and STR is the best option for DKs ( STR > AP )

January 30th, 2009 at 1:59 am
Deathtar
 38 

I found it doesnt hurt to go get attunned and farm Herioc Magisters Terrace for the 44 expertise trinket if you dont have anyhting better =P

February 4th, 2009 at 6:18 am
Pulsonix
 39 

Whats the DW hit and Expertise cap mate??

February 6th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
baldman
 40 

too back jack up the hit cap on specials is 8% i did tests both with and with out my armor on till my weapons broke using skills the whole time and getting 2k hits in with most skills and i got this
WITH OUT ARMOR 8.1% avg of all skills including blood caked blade witch can miss.
WITH ARMOR 0 misses with any melee skills and my total hit % being 8.5%

I also noticed the hit % with white attacks to be 28% dual-wielding this was a 25% plus the 3% from that frost talent

February 9th, 2009 at 12:19 am
Blackdeath
 41 

This build is great, With the 3.1 patch coming what s going to happen with this build. The Howling blast is being moved to the 51 point and grgoyle is being moved and a bunch of crap is being done to the dk ….

March 1st, 2009 at 11:17 am
Alexwebmaster
 42 

Hello webmaster
I would like to share with you a link to your site
write me here preonrelt@mail.ru

March 3rd, 2009 at 5:31 am
SuperDeathk
 43 

Hey SJ i read all comments and article but didnt see an answer, sorry if i missed it, but Exp on DW do you need 26 / 26 or 13 / 13 ? i’ve had a poke around a few of my other regular sites but cant find an answer. THanks in advance, and great work with thesite!

March 3rd, 2009 at 9:03 am
Blackdeath
 44 

SuperDeathk an answer for you is from the site here the expertise 21 is your aim.

My expertise 19 and looks like 19/19 i use a food buff to push my expertise to 24..
hope this helps

March 3rd, 2009 at 9:32 am
SuperDeathk
 45 

ok great thanks Black i must of missed it on the site :)

March 3rd, 2009 at 10:01 am
Tholor
 46 

i’m sorry if this is a really stupid question, but what does APR refer to?? -.-

March 5th, 2009 at 5:18 am
Terrorr
 47 

@Tholor
APr is Armor Penetration rating

March 11th, 2009 at 9:18 am
Jill
 48 

I’m confused about the caps. You state; “you will only need 288.53 Hit Rating to Spell Hit cap.” Is this the amount I need to obtain through gems, gear, enchantt, etc? Put another way, if 445.91 is the hit cap then, under ideal raid conditions, should my stat say 445.91?

Unholy DK

March 12th, 2009 at 10:03 am
Tholor
 49 

ah.. ofc. thanks Terrorr! : )

March 15th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Creytak
 50 

Actually using the 21/50/0 build for 2h frost dmg. This build wont get affected that much with frost tree shuffle of 3.1, and if I read correctly all the uptodate changes, it may buff the FS dmg abit.

single mob rotation (ie Raid boss):
Bloodtap-IT-BS-OBx2-FSx2 repeat.
with glyphs I can pull out up to 4 FS in one rotation.

theres not alot of spell in this rotation. one IT per cycle. Taking that FS cant be dodged-parried-blocked, and it being the main dmg output (recount gives it 30% dmg, 22% for oblit) Id say for frost 2h:

melee hit>str>crit>expertise>spell hit>…

correct me if Im wrong :)

Trash aoe is catching the nerfbat tho (HB).

March 15th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
Fernando
 51 

Actually creytak, you can actually change it up with next patch! Since HB is getting moved to a 51 point…

I have the same build you have, 21/50/0

But for next patch i will have to see a 17/51/3

The 51 in frost is obvious. the 3 point in unholy, is actually a good one, because Virulance is being move to the top tier, so you will be able to grab it!

I might also add, since we will be using OB and FS more then HB will Armor Penetration be good to have?

March 17th, 2009 at 7:11 am
Fernando
 52 

I also have to add, that Blood is getting a nice boost next patch! It might be good to take a look at!

March 17th, 2009 at 7:17 am
Creytak
 53 

good point there, about virulence.

but then we loose DRM using those 3pts in UH. DRM helps keeping a tight rotation even if you make an error, so all in all Im not sure what would help dps the best: making the rotation failproof with DRM or getting a 3%spell hit with vir.

As I said since IT is the single spell in our single target rotation (even tho its an opener) Id say DRM is still the best dps wise.

but what do you think?
exp>crit or viceversa

March 17th, 2009 at 9:23 am
Fernando
 54 

I think you might be right! Is best to get DRM, since HB is getting nerf…

For a 2hander dps frost, most of your attacks will be melee, other then IT, so i will focus on getting melee hit cap, with expertise cap.

Now this post did not mention it, but 26 expertise skill Cap is only Dodge cap. You can still get parried. You will have to get more expertise to avoid parries!

I’m not 100% sure but to to avoid parries you need 58 expertise. If anyone can verify this, then please do so.

But 26 expertise is good to have. Going past 26 expertise will still help toward Parries, but the stat points are usually spent better elsewhere.

Now if you ask why bother with expertise cap when you got FS? Well don’t forget your using OB. So it’s good to have something to help, not getting your OB dodge, or parried!

Now for next patch I will not be using HB that much due to the massive nerf, as i would rather use OB. HB will be good only when Rime proceeds…

So in the end, for 2hander frost dps i will say
Hit > Expertise > Strength > Crit > APR > Agi > AP > Haste

Once you gotten hit melee cap at 8%, and 26 expertise skill (Unless you want more expertise to be parried cap) work on strength, crit, and APR as APR is getting a nice boost next patch!

March 20th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Fernando
 55 

I forgot to add, why i did not care about spell hit, and that’s because the main spell as a 2hander frost dps we will use is IT! And i don’t want to waste more hit just to get IT spell cap! It was rather important before because we use HB a lot, but with new patch i don’t think it might be that great to get higher hit then melee hit for 2hander frost dps.

But if you are big on spell hit cap then go for it!

March 20th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Skeleton Jack
 56 

You can only be parried when the boss is facing you. If you are facing the boss you are doing something horribly horirbly wrong (outside of one Ulduar boss where you are forced to – the only encounter in game that forces you to). Getting that much expertise will shoot your stats in the foot and drop your dps. APr sucks for all builds excepting Blood, and even then it doesn’t come close to something like Str.

March 20th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Necrobud
 57 

I specced into tundra stalker and was just wondering why it doesnt show me that my expertise went up by 5?

April 2nd, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Fernando
 58 

Yes i know Str is good, but when i refer to APr i will mean by the stats that comes from your gear. for example the leg plate which has crit rating and APr, and another has crit and haste! So i would take the legplate with crit and APr then crit with haste!

But yes you can get parried when boss is facing you, thus making expertise more valuable for a tank! For dps 26 expertise skill is enough as you will face him from the back, or in front some times….!

So i will still reckon that for 2 handers getting gear with APr is much better then getting gear with haste. And again that’s only after you gotten your melee hit cap.

April 11th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Kamyan
 59 

Can someone show a link for the 17/51/3 tree? im new to the dk’s, and im currently running the 17/0/54…i am undecided about going 2H or DW…any suggestions? also here’s a link to my armory…am i gemming/enchanting incorrectly?

i read this whole forum, and i am still a little lost. if anyone could find the time to help i would be greatful.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Quel%27dorei&n=Kamyan

April 14th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
Casusbelli
 60 

I noticed spell hit is over crit for Unholy, but wouldn’t crit be better for more Wandering Plague procs?

April 15th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Kyle
 61 

OK with changes now is that updated for 3.1?

April 16th, 2009 at 6:55 am
jakalope
 62 

maybe i missed it somewhere on the page, but i’m pretty sure i read everything. so maybe i didn’t. either way, when referring to the expertise cap, i see it listed as 26 and 21. is the 21 what you need to have displayed on your character sheet, and then have one of the 5 point experiste talents from your chosen tree? is this displayed in the character sheet, or is this 5 expertise bonus hidden behind the scenes somewhere? this would clear up a lot of confusion for me.

April 23rd, 2009 at 2:35 am
Fernando
 63 

Are you doing any updates for hit, expertise and all that good stuff for the new patch?

April 28th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Skeleton Jack
 64 

Yes

April 29th, 2009 at 5:27 am
Fernando
 65 

Sweet. By the way i wanted to ask you something.
What’s your view on: http://www.lootrank.com/wr.asp?Cla=2048&s7=2.1&s1=2.1&s3=2.1&Gem=3&Str=17&mh=4&dps=100&Sta=3&mcr=16&odps=50&Agi=10&mhit=12&map=7&arp=14&Exp=12&Ver=5&i4=0&title=Death+Knight+PvE

This is the loot rank for dk dps pve. Is this an accurate rank for any dk dps pve?

April 30th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
Dimmakk
 66 

SJ…GREAT SITE…first time post…long time lurker..
just a point of clarification on expertise…
Blood: 15 skill (123 rating)
Frost: 21 skill (172.2 rating)
Unholy: 21 skill (172.2 rating) vs.
26 Expertise Skill is the Expertise Cap

which is correct?

and with heroic presence do i shoot for 7% hit cap and assume 1% from heroic presence or shoot for 8% because heroic presence is included in that number?
thanks..suffer well

May 12th, 2009 at 2:07 am
Snaza
 67 

Wait, so in order to expertise cap you need 15 for blood and 21 for unholy/frost right? Or, is it 26 total even WITH tundra stalker/rage of rivendare? I’m confused. Right now, I have 21 expertise and I’m Blood spec and i have 3/3 in Veteran and 5/5 in Blood Gorged. Am I expertise capped? Please help.

May 24th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Snaza
 68 

I basically have the exact same question as Jakalope. Please answer her question for me SJ.

May 24th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
tyronn
 69 

is expertise rating that important as a unholy dps?

June 17th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
JSkaven
 70 

tyronn,

Absolutely. Getting hit capped and then expertise capped are absolute priorities. And then you can go back and worry about the other goodies out there. Without expertise, a six percent chance to do absolutely no damage is only slightly preferable to viewing naked pictures of Gary Coleman.

As always, gearing up is always a balancing act. You don’t want to pass up that 50 strength for the sake of 2 expertise. Just keep your head.

June 24th, 2009 at 10:07 am
tyronn
 71 

hey thanks for the advice Jskaven it helped loads :)

June 25th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Justin
 72 

hey sj — what do you suggest using to alert you to rime procs?

August 4th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
Drdark
 73 

Hi SJ, fine?… it’s my first comment on your site, (great site)… and i need know, how i know what build is the best for my gear?… now i’m testind DW Frost (3/51/17)… and i’m not Hit and expetise caped!

this is my armory

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Warsong&n=Drdark

August 11th, 2009 at 5:26 am
Gaijinx
 74 

So….3.2.0 whats the best spec dw frost or 2h blood?? any1

August 11th, 2009 at 7:46 am
Myatonic
 75 

Didn’t really see a response to one persons statement that a boss can’t dodge when a DPS raider is behind him. This is incorrect, mobs can dodge your attacks regardless of the direction you attack from.

Parry is the only thing you avoid when attacking from behind or from the “flanks”. And we all know how devastating parry can be.

August 13th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Unemployment
 76 

DW special hit cap is now 5% due to talents.

September 4th, 2009 at 10:40 am
Tume
 77 

Hey! Im dk tank atm and i lack hit atm (got 175) and expertise 28…is it really important to get more hit or just go for more expertise?? for makin threat ofc :) thx allready for answer :p

September 11th, 2009 at 10:28 am
dszero
 78 

is the expertise cap the same for tanking? wowwikki says i need 60. I’m confused.

thanks SJ you are awesome!

September 14th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Cowkong
 79 

expertise for tanks is ALOT higher than that for dps because you are no longer standing behind your opponent. that 60 expertise skill sounds about right. which by the way is NOT WORTH GETTING. you lose too many stats including stamina, dodge, and parry to worry about hitting the expertise tanking cap.

September 27th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
bonnydoom
 80 

I have hit of 572 and am a draeni with ToT. dw frost spec is it important to get my hit higher and lose more strength and dps?

October 23rd, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Coreages
 81 

Hi, i’ve read through a lot of the comments, and as well as the post. I’ve had this issue for quite a while and I’d like some clarification. What hit rating should I be aiming for as a DW FROST? I’ve read 388 (12%) on Elitist Jerks. You said that melee cap is 8%. You also stated that it is important for DW to go above 8%. How far above should i go?

October 27th, 2009 at 8:57 am
Malakhay
 82 

Dark Command counts as a spell as well, methinks.

December 21st, 2009 at 8:26 am
Morî
 83 

sorry, im confused.

just to get this straight regarding expertise.

cap is 26 skill, as blood i only need 20 because of talents. AND since im a orc using a axe it is lowered to 15 because of axe specializtion?

could someone pls confirm that it is 15 skill? Because it appears i have waaaay too much expertise.

thx for a great site, love reading it. keep up the good work and try to update it slightly more often if you can =)

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Nordrassil&cn=Mor%C3%AE&gn=Temple+Of+Bachus

January 17th, 2010 at 2:07 am
Skeleton Jack
 84 

You want 26 total Expertise on your character sheet. I’ve never had a racial bonus to Expertise before, so I’m not 100% sure if that will show on your character screen. The easiest method to test that fact would be to take off all Expertise items excepting the weapon you get the racial bonus with and see what the displayed total is. At that point you should only be seeing racial and talent bonuses, so it will be easy to determine. The character screen does display Expertise that comes from talents. If you have an Expertise of somewhere between 23-28 it’s not too big of a deal. But you don’t want to be over the cap if at all possible, and I don’t recommend ever dropping under 23.

January 17th, 2010 at 4:55 am
Morî
 85 

after checking and removing all expertise gear + axe just in case, i did have 11 expertise.

which means that orc racial and blood talents are calculated.

so the expertise cap remains at 26 as you said, confirmed.

=)

/Mori

January 17th, 2010 at 8:17 am
Dklewis
 86 

Ok I have only gemed for strength and my hit rating is at 435… how would I gem or enchant to increase expertise. On bronzebread if you want a look.

January 19th, 2010 at 10:16 am
daffieduck
 87 

got a nightelf dk tank 2% avoidance is that realy that big of a deal

February 5th, 2010 at 9:33 am
ghadrek
 88 

Please could you help! I’ve read your artical and posts but nobody has mentioned spell crit!!!!!
I have just started dpsing as I was mainly pvping and read that spell crit is good for pvp.
Does spell crit help with dps? Infact can anyone confirm it helps with pvp? Thanks for any help and keep up good work. Great site with lots of good info.

February 23rd, 2010 at 12:21 pm
Luciferano
 89 

im going to guess that like defense, hit, and so on, there is a parry cap. if so, then could you make a post about it? something else i would like to know is if the parry cap differs among the other tank classes.

June 17th, 2010 at 11:18 pm
Skeleton Jack
 90 

No such thing as a parry cap, however you do get diminishing returns on any rating for defensive stats. It’s not currently possible to avoidance cap in ICC as a DK, so it’s a moot point.

June 18th, 2010 at 3:55 am

2 Trackbacks/Pings

  1. Death Knight Specs for 3.1 Release - Necropolis An Exodar Alliance Guild    Apr 14 2009 / 9pm:

    [...] Simple.  Fallen Crusader and Blood Presence.  Nuff said.  As to the rest, you should have at least 8% hit and 15 Expertise minimum.  If you have any questions regarding Hit and Expertise please read my post:  Hit and Expertise Revisited. [...]

  2. Patch Day 3.1 « Awakening in Progress    Apr 15 2009 / 10am:

    [...] Knight Specs for 3.1 Release and Hit and Expertice Revisited at Skeleton [...]

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